1987 G50 clutch help!!

[hymlopez]

Need some help to determine if need new clutch or is something else. Clutch was shifting perfect, but this morning it became very heavy to engaged, then it start to get stuck mid way, has to pulled up with my foot. Then try to engaged again, (very hard to do by the way) and heard some grinding noise (obviously I stopped doing it), and finally now it won't even go down, like stuck in the "up" position. Any ideas???? Thanks!

LTC Lopez

[Dixie]

I suspect it's not your clutch per se, but a hydraulic issue. Most likely the slave cylinder.

[88-diamondblue]

Very possible that the rubber center of the clutch disc let loose. Mine let loose and the clutch pedal was very heavy after it happened. This is what it looked like after getting it out. The chunks of rubber interfere with the clutch engagement.

[Tigerrat]

Start with the easy stuff first. Where is the grinding noise coming from? I'd check the pedal cluster for anything amiss. If the slave or master are binding that bad they are likely leaking too. Ken

[ShakinJoe]

Sounds like the the rubber center fialed...finally. Time to get it in for a new clutch.

[hymlopez]

Thanks for all replies. Will look for leaks, slave, ect, if new clutch is need it, it'll be shop time, no tools/time for it...

[diverdan]

Could be failure of throw out bearing parts. Mine exhibited similar symptoms and the throwout bearing actually pulled through the pressure plate fingers.
Good luck.
Dan

[hymlopez]

Another thing I noted was that the reservoir cap was completely loose and some fluid over spilled, maybe because all the pressure I put when I was trying to engaged the clutch??

[Tigerrat]

Yes, that could be. Hydraulics can't move fork. Sure doesn't sound like you have a leak.

[hymlopez]

Couldn't find any leak, or anything wrong in the pedal area, so I guess is clutch time...??

[Quicksilver]

There are a number of things that can happen in a G50 Carrera clutch system. You say you heard grinding. Where was it coming from? Was it simply the transmission grinding from a bad clutch release or did it sound like something else?

Before dropping the motor I would check the release action from one end of the system to the other.
- Pull the floorboard and check to be certain that all of the pedal action is being transmitted to the master cylinder. There is a cross shaft with special rollpins that are known to fail.
- There is a clutch helper spring in the pedal assembly. Is it still correctly tensioned, is it rattling loose, or even binding the movement?
- Get the car in the air and make sure that the pedal motion is creating proportional release fork action in the bellhousing. (You'll need a helper obviously.) If you remove the drivers side rear tire you will see a rectangular rubber plug (about 1.5"x3") on the bellhousing that just pops out so you should be able to see the release fork movement.
- If if looks good there you might have to dive farther in and drop the engine and trans.

-------
The G50 is known to have issues with the lubrication of the pivot of the throwout fork. This will make it bind big time and I have seen it come on suddenly after long drives. The release fork assembly was upgraded by the factory which required boring out the pivot shaft bore to use a larger bearing so there are more then one size of parts possibly involved.

If you get in there and it hasn't been updated there is an aftermarket upgrade that uses the original bore size with bronze bushings instead of bearings which is considered to be the best solution.

[hymlopez]

Hi QuickSilver, I think it was the transmission, did the grinding when I forced the pedal all the way down trying to shift from first to second...

[Quicksilver]

Originally Posted by hymlopez

Hi QuickSilver, I think it was the transmission, did the grinding when I forced the pedal all the way down trying to shift from first to second...

I think you should really check all of the release bits before opening it up then.

Because of the higher effort caused by the "release fork bearing failure" issue that I mentioned, a whole host of other things can fail.
In the pedal cluster under the floorboards are a number of things that are fairly easy to look at.

- The pins (#25 2ea) holding the pedal (#15) and the bellcrank (#24) to the cross shaft (#13)can fail. At first they shear only one side which makes the pedal feel weird and most of the pedal movement is lost so you don't get complete clutch release.
- The cross shaft can crack. If it does crack the pedal force will increase because of binding until the shaft cracks completely through.
- The helper spring is an odd little thing. If it is having problems it shouldn't cause the release to fail but I would check it to be sure it isn't rattling around loose or broken and be sure it isn't binding (which could cause your problem).

In the rear:

The original factory cross shaft and release fork is shown in as #3 and #2. This was superseded by an upgraded cross shaft and release fork shown as #14 and #19. The release pivot is unbelievably lubrication sensitive. If you don't use special lubrication it will fail. Period. (The recommended lube is very hard to find but Bosch Distributor Grease is an acceptable substitute and can be found at most VW shops.)
- The release fork can fail in a couple ways. It can crack through the hole for the pivot shaft and it can have the release fingers fail.
- The throwout bearing can have problems. If it becomes partially detached from the pressure plate you will get only a partial clutch release which will cause lots of grinding in the trans but not higher effort.
- As mentioned in another post: The rubber clutch center can fail. This was quite a problem with the earlier rubber centered disk on the SCs but the Carrera never had much trouble with it. The car is over 20 years old though so it definitely can fail but you have to open it up to find out so I would look at this last.

Time to get in there and start checking from front to back.

[hcoles]

If the clutch fork shaft setup is the stock type and has a lot of miles I would pull the motor/trans and replace that setup with the non-machining needed bronze bushing kit, which is not perfect but better than causing the worst case scenario. The worst case scenario is that the added force on the trans. ears holding the shaft causes them to give way and part with the transmission. The cost of this will 5x or 10x pulling the engine and getting all the clutch parts replaced. The needle bearing setup is not good when it gets filled with clutch dust.
I have a thread running here on a solution I came up with and now testing. I'm not recommending my solution, I'll know in 5 years if it was good. One idea, if you get the kit, is to have the shaft hard chromed and reground back to size, then install the kit. This is only an idea and hasn't been tested. The shaft I got with my kit, which was showing considerable wear after 25k miles, was not hardened, which people have pointed out could be improved by having the shaft hardened. With all of this you are now entering the world of aftermarket fly-by-night engineering and amateur opinions, such as what I'm posting, so ask a lot of questions.

[kidrock]

hymlopez,

all the advice you've received up to this point is very good...it really can be one of many things causing your particular problem.

just my .02 cents...it seems to me that it would be far easier and cheaper to look at your pedal cluster and helper spring before you do an engine drop. Eliminate the simple stuff first. There's too many stories on this site where people threw hundreds of $$$ at a problem, only to find out a simple adjustment did the trick.