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Towed due to excessive smoke.

Well this is a new to me 1985 911 high mileage 197,000 miles.

Took it out for its first real cruise... not hard... just finally on the highway... after having it on the road for 3 days... just a short easy commute to and from work.

Today was 30+ degrees celcius.
Went for a drive... about 15 minutes into it... excessive smoke out the tail pipe.
White and grey billowing smoke.

No sigh of any excessive oil leak.

So I had it towed home and made some phone calls to some former Porsche mechanics. Also checked out some online discussions.

Mechanic said he remembers a check valve that controls amount of oil... and he said it sounds like it is stuck open... thus burning and blowing out of the tail pipe... which should go away...

Discussion topics talk alot about overfilling.

So after reading and hearing this...

I started the car up a again... not too much smoke... and then it starts billowing again.

Oil pressure at idle - 3.
Oil Level... sits in the red... until warmed up... as it goes up... the smoke increases.
Oil temp... warms up slightly.
Checked dip stick... oil just above min line.

Let it run for 5 minutes... no change.

Let it sit for half hour.

Tried again... let it run for 5-10 minutes... no change...

After letting it idle longer... it started to sputter and the oil pressure dips... and it feels like it is going to stall... so I turned it off...

And logged on to Pelican Forum.

I am not mechanically inclined...

The mechanic I spoke with is semi-retired Porsche shop.. and now tinkers here and there... said he would do oil change and clean some things up... and thinks that could do the trick.

With the high mileage... I know it would be in need of a top end... but I would like to try and nurse it through its first summer... less than 2500 miles.

Keeping in mind the oil pressure seems fine... and the car runs smooth... and drives fine.... is it possible that there is a "seal" or something more serious than just overfilling? Or so called Check Valve?

HELP! Thank you!!!

Old 07-07-2010, 10:22 PM
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Change the oil.
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Old 07-07-2010, 10:36 PM
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Who changed the oil last? Please don't say Jiffy Lube. (+1 on oil change)

Where are you at? Maybe someone near you could look it over with you.

What was the last thing done to it? Anything? Or did you mean you just bought it and drove it for the first 3 days and it started doing this with no recent history you can go off.

Try leaving the oil cap off. Could it be over pressurizing the case and pushing oil past the seals???
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Last edited by flat6pilot; 07-07-2010 at 10:50 PM..
Old 07-07-2010, 10:44 PM
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I picked the car up cheap.
Had full PPI completed before I bought it.
I bought it sight unseen.
Took a chance I know.
Dont know who did the oil changes... previous owner said he did the routine maintenance himself.
I figured I would drive it for a week... 5-10kms a day... until I could find a Porsche Mechanic to do some routine maintenance.
I dont think anything has been done to the car... based on California Smog Test History and Carfax History... very few miles put on it every year. It is a ROW car... from Santa Clara CA... now in BC Canada.
Sorry... dont have a lot of history to go on... but just hoping it is nothing major...

The longer I let it idle... it is more Grey then it is White.

It is intermittent... when it idles.... so thick you cant see through it... then it thins out... then thick again....

Last edited by hamkj; 07-07-2010 at 11:11 PM..
Old 07-07-2010, 11:07 PM
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It would be nice if we knew your location. I hope this turns out ok for you. I'd find a shop and tow it there. I don't know that I would run it anymore.
+1 on oil change and valve adjustment.
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Old 07-08-2010, 04:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Justin@Athens View Post
It would be nice if we knew your location. I hope this turns out ok for you. I'd find a shop and tow it there. I don't know that I would run it anymore.
+1 on oil change and valve adjustment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hamkj View Post
It is a ROW car... from Santa Clara CA... now in BC Canada.

bc
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Old 07-08-2010, 05:27 AM
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overfilled. drain the oil from both the tank and engine, (two drain plugs), and put 9 quarts (ten with a filter) back in. you're going to have to run it until the oil bakes out of the muffler and exchangers. the engine really doesn't burn much. it gets burped up into the intake through the tank breather hose on the filler neck and gets blasted through into the exhaust system where it lays until the exhaust is hot enough to start it smoking. takes a while to burn it off. maybe go out at night and fog the area. keep the oil level 1/2 way between the dipstick marks for best results. never add oil or even bother checking it with the engine not running or before it's totally warmed up.
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Old 07-08-2010, 05:30 AM
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Remove the air filter and see if there's oil in the airbox.

A fast left hand corner usually helps the oil get up there.

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Old 07-08-2010, 06:08 AM
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He said the oil was just above the Min mark..... this may be a silly question but are you leaving the car running while checking? Porsche is the only car I know that you check in this way, like an auto transmission. Where in BC?, Cheers
Old 07-08-2010, 06:43 AM
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If it were burning oil, the smoke would be blue. He said it's white/grey, which indicates water to me. Also if it were oil, wouldn't it start billowing immediately on startup?

My guess is there's water in the exhaust system and it's boiling off after the muffler heats up.
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Old 07-08-2010, 06:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drisump View Post
He said the oil was just above the Min mark..... this may be a silly question but are you leaving the car running while checking? Porsche is the only car I know that you check in this way, like an auto transmission. Where in BC?, Cheers
Correct, engine must be warm, i.e. at "normal" operating temp which means about the 1/3 mark on the oil temp gauge. The car must be on level ground and the car must be running at idle RPM.

Just for grins, 1) what is the oil pressure "Druck" when the engine is warm and at idle speed? and 2) with engine running idle, what is your RPM?
Old 07-08-2010, 07:17 AM
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I would pull the spark plugs and see if they show any signs of burning oil or running rich.
Did the PPI include a leak down and compression test. It would show if the rings or valves are leaking, but not show if the valve guides are worn, which is common on the 3.2.
As Porschenut wrote, it may just be burning off old moisture and oil in the exhaust, but excessively worn valve guides can lead to serious problems.
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Old 07-08-2010, 07:37 AM
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Uhm, did anyone read Post #7? Anyone? Bueller?

Brian
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Old 07-08-2010, 07:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1982911SCTarga View Post
Uhm, did anyone read Post #7? Anyone? Bueller?

Brian
+1

i have overfilled my car as well...looks like a mosquito truck. Follow JW's directions and wait until midnight and go drive off the oil.
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Old 07-08-2010, 07:53 AM
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Getting scary now...

Well left the car over night.

Start it up this morning...

Here is the pic of the dash gauge after start up.

Here is a pic of the air filter after all of this has occured... clean...

Does this mean... I am looking at something other than a simple overfill?

Will attempt to post video of 1 minute of idlling... Lots of billowing smoke at start up... maybe 10-20 seconds... then car settles at idle... no smoke.... then... billowing smoke starts again... and stays like that...



Old 07-08-2010, 08:03 AM
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You showing the oil level gauge right after start up tells us that perhaps you don't understand how to check your oil level. First off the car has to be up to operating temperature (second white mark from the bottom) on the temp gauge, on level ground and engine idling to check. Then, never use the gauge, use the dipstick! Check with these instructions and then report back. When cold the oil level gauge always sits at the lowest mark.
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Old 07-08-2010, 08:08 AM
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I know how to check the oil. I had it up to operating temperature last night. I dont want to run the car more than I have to with all of this going on.

After a 15 minute drive last night and this happening... when I got home... I started it on my level driveway and then let it idle and have a smoke show... checked the oil while it was running... and it was just above the min line.

I took picture of dash because I have had people ask about oil pressure... and rpms... etc.
Old 07-08-2010, 08:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by john walker's workshop View Post
overfilled. drain the oil from both the tank and engine, (two drain plugs), and put 9 quarts (ten with a filter) back in. you're going to have to run it until the oil bakes out of the muffler and exchangers. the engine really doesn't burn much. it gets burped up into the intake through the tank breather hose on the filler neck and gets blasted through into the exhaust system where it lays until the exhaust is hot enough to start it smoking. takes a while to burn it off. maybe go out at night and fog the area. keep the oil level 1/2 way between the dipstick marks for best results. never add oil or even bother checking it with the engine not running or before it's totally warmed up.
This is my guess......there is a check valve/brillo pad thingy in the oil return line. Most people know dick about dry sump motors and how to check the level. I always run oil at the lower level. BTDT.
Old 07-08-2010, 08:30 AM
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Here is the video.

YouTube - 1985 Porsche 911 Excessive Smoke

Help me out... seems puffy white smoke... then grey... then maybe blue???

Hope this helps fellow Pelicans help me...

I dont want to bother with oil change etc right this second if we figure it is way more than that...

I will get the oil change done after the major work is done.

Anyone have any ideas based on the information provided? I know this is a tough thing to do when you are not here.

But I just want to prepare myself....

When someone says Valve Job.. is that top end rebuild?

Valve guides?

Adjustment?

Any ideas on time and cost of the things that it could be... just want to find a way of getting through a summer with it.
Old 07-08-2010, 08:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1982911SCTarga View Post
Uhm, did anyone read Post #7? Anyone? Bueller?

Brian
Geesh. Exactly what I was thinking.


From one of my earlier post

"FWIW. A funny little story.

When I first got my 911 I changed the oil in the tank and forgot to empty the oil from the sump plate. I added the required 11 quarts and thought all was well..........until.........I came to a stop light with a slight downhill and to the left slope, as I pulled away and excellerated the engine became extremely quiet, just a faint muffled rumble, I started looking at gauges etc. and then looked in my rear veiw to see if anything was laying on the ground.

No joke....behind me was a smoke screen 75 yards long, covering 2 lanes of traffic, and as tall as the telephone poles !!!!!! It was thick , heavy, and white, looked like a Vermont snow storm.

I pulled over immediately.

Long story short.......to much oil in system. I was told the oil was probably splashing up on the underside of the cylinders and just burning off.

I felt like a real jerk standing there watching the smoke drift away while everyone on the highway was looking at me.

I drove home slowly, emptied a quart and a half of oil from the sump and never had that problem again."



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Old 07-08-2010, 08:35 AM
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