Front mount coolers, hard or soft line?

[d.a.autry]

Is factory brass best option to get oil up front?

[Trackrash]

What car are you doing this on and what motor do you have?

The best way to go, keeping price in mind, is to get a used set-up off an SC or Carrera. It's Porsche and looks better than the hose. Not to mention that -16 stainless hose is not cheap.

There are also after market kits.

[JeremyD]

ELEPHANT RACING Home

[dad911]

what car, engine, cooler, valence/bumper, and intended use? and what does it have now?

[Schwarzeritter]

It depends in my view on how the vehicles being used.

I would recommend the steel braided lines with a bit of slack. But as to the oil cooler
and placement it depends on the bumper. And set up etc

[d.a.autry]

'76 2.7 50k on stock.



I'll eventually be using a center mount and fans. I went ahead and picked up a stock trombone setup just to get some cooling. . right now. . but in the long run it simply comes down to what would do the job better with the most reliability and long term serviceability.

Yeah, I've seen the big Elephant, but I needed something yesterday and don't have 1.5k in the petty cash drawer of the cooler budget area yet.

[d.a.autry]

ANYway, (had to work) . . . upgrades are in my thoughts, be it later model engine or a good build-out on the 2.7 base. There is an RSR dam on it now, this may change but I will always use a front designed for a center mount. It may see PCA stuff one day, I don't see it as ever being a full time track car though.

What does it have now?. . .nothing. . .and oil reaching 240+. I'd take one made outta copper plumbing and sweat joints right now!

If this right now can bring me down just 15 degrees I'll be elated. I'm going to go ahead and gather what's needed for the center installation and get things going there now. I think I'm going to stick with this as a base for that right now unless SS soft lines are enough of a better option to make it worth while. Then I'll just put this one back on market.

[lindy 911]

I bought a set of used 16-AN oil lines from a NASCAR team off of ebay. They came with re-usable fittings on each end and can be cut to length. These are the newer black mesh lines that don't chew up everything they come in contact with and cost me less than $100. When I say "used", these lines were used for practice while tuning the set-up one time. When I got them they looked like they had never been run.

I bought 30mm to 16-AN adapters to fit the thermostat and used a front mount cooler that was set up with 16-AN fittings and a TRE FG bumper / air dam with splitter. I have $350 in what most people spend over a $1000 for. The black braided lines look very trick.

Lindy

[JeremyD]

Have you seen the ones from BAT?

British American Transfer

They make a fairly inexpensive solution.

I decided to go with Elephant Racing hard lines - and Earl's plumbing coolers with -16AN fittings.





I went with the hard lines (and will add a 2nd cooler in the wheel well) because several folks that had used the soft lines eventually pulled them out and went with hard lines because they tended to sag some - and I will be tracking this car quite a bit and wanted the added durability. I looked for some used hard lines and they were hard to come by ((undamaged)

[d.a.autry]

Lindy,

Kinda where my thoughts were on this too. I saw this though and knew that it was something I could have together almost immediately with no major engineering involved. Plus, once I find the front mount components that I want, I can either continue to use this as a base or just set up a new line/thermo system and sell this off to pay for that. I was pricing out nice aftermarket systems I could make work for just under 600 new. . but then I was spec'ing out 12 and not a 16.

BTW. . .anyone know ID of the stock brass lines?

[d.a.autry]

Originally Posted by JeremyD

I looked for some used hard lines and they were hard to come by ((undamaged)

That's what I've heard. . .sans my worry about plunking down 400 on something sight unseen. The seller has a decent return policy, so we'll see what I get. Looking closer at the pics it appears that someone may have rednecked the tank to thermo line with hose clamps. . .that's not necessarily a killer though. If that's the only thing I find needing attention, then I still don't feel real bad. I can redneck it much better by using doubled and wider clamps for awhile!

[d.a.autry]

&*#*^@#*&@%&@#%$ !!!!!

Looks like the engine oil line to thermo is for the 75 - 77 exhausts. I'm backdated. I may have to address that.

[Trackrash]

BTW. . .anyone know ID of the stock brass lines?

20mm.

Which is also the ID of -16 fittings, which is why most will recommend that size if going with AN stuff.

Once you decide which way to go, make sure to make a list of everything you need. The cost of those fittings adds up quick.

You said you have a trombone? Have you installed it? Those will make a difference.

240 degs is higher than most oils will operate effectively. You might want to back date your exhaust and richen up your fuel injection, which will help lower your temps. Hopefully your valve guides are still OK.

BTW I added a trombone to my '71 and am about to add a center front cooler. I'm using a Mazda cooler with AN adapters.

[d.a.autry]

Originally Posted by Trackrash

Hopefully your valve guides are still OK.

Yeah, they should be, they were freshened with updated guides when the heads were done.

Been driving with a mismatched temp sender , didn't know I was toasting things as bad as I really was.

I did pick up a trombone setup, however I am already backdated and the one I bought has a engine to thermo line for the smogger exhaust. I'll need to figure a solid modification to get this connected (the one with my set looks leaky anyway) or get a new or decent used one that's for use with SSI's.

I'm also going to back my timing down about 3 -5 along with a little richer burn.

Thanks TR

[grizzfan]

I wonder if something like this would work? The price is certainly attractive!! I've sent them a message to see if they have one for a 2.7L (1976) engine. I see where one 911 owner in Australia bought one. Any thoughts?

NEW PERFORMANCE OIL COOLER KIT Porsche 911 1965-1971: eBay Motors (item 270586519214 end time Jul-29-10 09:13:54 PDT)

Tom

[d.a.autry]

I would be very weary of that.

Although new, that looks like on of those 'As Seen In JC Whitney' adverts.

[JeremyD]

I can't tell you the amount of research time I have put into this same problem - but rest assured it's considerable.

I assumed my 1974 (got it in February) had lines and a loop cooler. Nothing came up on the PPI - Hey some 1974 and 1975's came over without cooling - most did have some form of cooling - mine (and yours) did not.

My plan was to track the car.

For cheap and easy - keep an eye on the used parts classifieds - I've seen Mocal and Turbotrol coolers and soft lines go for $250 on up - enough to lower your temps a good 10-20 degrees.

For a "kit" probably can't beat the Batinc.net mocal cooler and thermostat option - around $750 - that's about as cheap as you will get for a plug and play (believe me I have looked) - they include a thermostat - but from everything I have read - it really makes sense to use the Porsche 911 Thermostat.

Next option would be to fab your own lines - and do your own cooler. Jegs and Summit sell the Earl's Plumbing coolers - they are reasonable - especially compared to Porsche or elephant racing.

There are a few suppliers that sell the repro carrera cooler for around $350 - check ebay

You can also keep an eye out for used carrera coolers - here and flea bay - notice whenever anybody mentions parting a carrera - usually the 1st or 2nd post (or behind the scenes PM) is about the lines and carrera cooler. Me personally - unless I know the history, I'd be suspect about introducing an old cooler (with god knows what happened to the engine) into my engines oil system. Sort of like sharing needles with a prostitute you picked up on craigslist...

SO - I found a thermostat Porsche version - for inexpensive. After scouring the junk yards locally (we have a german one) and posting WTB and ebay - I decided to bite the bullett on the elephant racing lines - Great quality -

Bought some 30mm to -16AN adapters - bought two coolers (Earl's) one is the same size as the Carrera Cooler - think it was 186 the front cooler was around $220 (I think) and some -16AN hose and connectors.

Some of the stuff I had to fabricate -

But even doing that - you'll have some money it in. The Stainless lines (-12AN or -16AN) is not cheap - you have to but some adapters to go from 30mm to AN -

I figured the stainless is about 1/2 the cost of the elephant when all is said and done.

If you find a different solution, I'd love to hear it - I'm too far into this now to do anything - but I'm still interested to heat what stone I may have left unturned.


** Dang ** Sorry for the book

[d.a.autry]

About the only other option I see is trying to R&R something stock. I'm a little upset that I bid on this without checking the linesets, not a real biggy, but for the 400 dropped for thermo, hardlines and a trombone I should have taken more time and verified the fitiment.

BTW. . . anyone have a decent 107-729 lying around?

Anyway, I've got a few old hoses with the 30mm hardware (why do I keep that crap!?) sitting around. I'm going to see if I can modify the late model (smogger version) engine to thermo line by having a 90 recrimped on. . .if not, oh well, what's another bill? If it works and looks like a reliable, non-leaky fix, then I'll run that until I make a firm decision on whether the hard lines stay in place. I'm betting on the latter at this point.

What kind of temp drop should I see with a stock trombone setup??. . .I'm hoping I get at least 15.

[Packy]

I like Lindy911's style. Probably will go the same way.

[Trackrash]

What kind of temp drop should I see with a stock trombone setup??. . .I'm hoping I get at least 15.

On my car with a 2.5 w/ webers the thermostat only opens when I'm on the track or the temp gets above about 90. Autocrossing in the summer at 90 degs I only see 210 or so. Of course the later 2.7s will run a lot hotter.
Maybe someone with a 2.7 can chime in.