CA Smog Requirements changed for 3.2's

[hcoles]

A buddy just went and tried to smog his 88 3.2 and it failed but we noticed that the "max allowed" limits changed (lower) from 2009. He had it off the road for a rebuild then smoged in 2009 to get back on the road, now had to smog 2010 and failed. The measurements went up, so we don't know what is going on there but we noticed the limits changed. Anyone know about that or if is going to go down even more in future years?

[longhornchris04]

Something sounds hinky because the requirements used to be year of the car or year of the engine (for engine swaps, block year), whichever was newer.

The idea was that you can't expect something made in say 1988 to meet the 2010 new car emissions. Of course its California so I wouldn't be surprised if the law changed and they didn't bother to publicize it. If thats the case then there will be a veritable flood of classic cars on the market as its going to be nigh impossible to get lots of older cars up to modern specs.

[stlrj]

Originally Posted by hcoles

A buddy just went and tried to smog his 88 3.2 and it failed but we noticed that the "max allowed" limits changed (lower) from 2009. He had it off the road for a rebuild then smoged in 2009 to get back on the road, now had to smog 2010 and failed. The measurements went up, so we don't know what is going on there but we noticed the limits changed. Anyone know about that or if is going to go down even more in future years?

What were his numbers?

[TT Oversteer]

I agree, sounds fishy. I just had my 89 3.2 smogged and it passed easily by a wide margin. CA smogs are county specific with respect to putting the car on rollers or not. If you live in an "enhanced" area you will have to take the full test with the car on rollers and engine under load. Non-enhanced counties only require sniffing the exhaust at two different RPM settings under no engine load. Did your friend's first and second tests differ in this regard? Please publish the numbers and I will compare with my stock 3.2.

[Tompickett]

It was my car, and the engine was rebuilt to a 3.4 using "Nickies" and JE Pistons, 9.5:1 compression. I put 1k miles on it in 2009 and then had it tested with excellent results. The test the other day got the car tagged as a "Gross Pollluter" I have altered the mixture and will be doing a pre-test tomorrow and will post that. .

I put 1'

[Zeke]

Tom, you don't verify that the allowable limits have changed. This would not be Kosher. A thread like this can be misleading if not true.

[pitargue]

Allowable limits change. I have all of my past smog tests of my Honda CRX to verify that the limits have changed.

[Joe Bob]

Hard to do since the engines are Federally certified.....I would call Bullcrap.

[Trackrash]

California, what a place. I know in the past that the standards where changed. Even the smog mechanics (I knew one) had no idea. Problem is there is know way to know what the standards are until you actually have your car tested.

I'm sure the GENIUSES who run the program (CARB?) have a good reason for this. Seems to me that a person should be ABLE to test his car when he feels like it to make sure it is in compliance. But NO, you have to test and FAIL first.

[craigyirush]

Allowable limits for what - CO2/O2/HC's/CO/NO?

I checked my CA smog certificates and in '06 and '08 the max. allowable NO (PPM) was 1148 and 978 at, respectively, 15mph and 25mph. In 2010 (I took my test last week) it was 804 and 685.

Nothing else changed, however.

[Tyson Schmidt]

They can change because the Federal standard that the factory must meet is way stricter than what the state tests for. So they can get stricter and still be more lenient than what the car had to meet when new.

[jkarolyi]

Thanks Tyson, that makes perfect sense.

[Tompickett]

I can verify that the limits did change, and that is a function of the fact that the EPA permits California to have more stringent limits than the rest of the states. We recently recieved permission from the federal government to adopt different standards. That they applied those standards to 22 year old cars, was a bit of a surprise.

Moreover, my car passed quite easily last year, but something changed (I am betting the mixture) on the engine, which caused it a fail. I expect to pass now that I have corrected the mixture.

[Tompickett]

FYI current limits for 2009 and 2010

2010:
HC: 85 ppm at 15 mph, 67 ppm at 25 mph
CO: .54 ppm at 15 mph, .45 ppm at 25 mph
NOx: 565 ppm at 15 mph, 522 ppm at 25 mph.

2009:
HC: 121 at 15, 96 at 25mph
CO: .76 at 15, .65 at 25 mph
NOx: 807 at 15, 746 at 25 mph

[Tompickett]

And the fact is you can request a pre-test at most test stations--I didn't because I passed so easily last year. So it is not that you have to fail first, but you have to believe that you need a pre-test to decide to have one...and I didn't.

[Danny_Ocean]

So where does it end? Do they keep gradually lowering the limits until you can no longer register your vehicle?

[Tompickett]

I suppose. Understand that there are different limits if you live in different parts of California. I live in Silicon Valley which is an enhanced smog II check area. If you lived in the Trinity Alps you would have a completely different test (no treadmill) and different (less stringent) limits.

Eventually you buy a vacation home in a state where they have easier smog requiements...where you register your 1988 3.2 ;-)

[86 911 Targa]

Originally Posted by Tompickett

FYI current limits for 2009 and 2010

2010:
HC: 85 ppm at 15 mph, 67 ppm at 25 mph
CO: .54 ppm at 15 mph, .45 ppm at 25 mph
NOx: 565 ppm at 15 mph, 522 ppm at 25 mph.

2009:
HC: 121 at 15, 96 at 25mph
CO: .76 at 15, .65 at 25 mph
NOx: 807 at 15, 746 at 25 mph

Here's our 2009 Smog Check for our local area.

I don't have the 2008 numbers.

Hope this helps to clarify the issue(s).

Gerry

[Zeke]

That just about ensures I will be driving a pre '75 model car for the rest of my life. If they take that away, I'll simply steal stickers. I'm not moving and I'd f the state in any way I can as long as I'm here and alive.

[rusnak]

Mine failed three (yes 3) times until I finally decided to learn the system and fix it myself. Had been to two shops and bought an entire new Motronic system. I spent a ton of money, and finally passed. The problem was high NOx, and a new catalytic didn't help. It turned out to be a fault in the O2 sensor wire. The sensor tested ok, but the break in the wire must have been intermittant.

Now, two years later, I got my renewal notice. This is the first time I can ever remember they didn't require a Test Only smog test. Does that mean I can take it to a testing place with only a sniffer and no rollers? If it fails this time, I'm going to steal stickers too.