Protomotive Turbo kit Information- what do you think?

carnut169 · carnut169's Garage

I wrote Protomotive to inquire about the turo kits they sell and Todd Knighton wote me back with the following information:

The Stage 1 and Stage 1 upgrade are the only two sytstems that are strictly 'bolt-on' for those cars...
The Stage 1 is a single turbo system that is non-intercooled due to the low boost pressure. It runs .5 bar or about 7psi on the stock compression ratio for anywhere from 335 to 375hp depending on the type of Stage 1 system you prefer... The lowest of them is the Stage 1 on the side, but it's also the cheapest. It basically takes place of the cat using exhaust pieces to connect from the factory heat exchangers to the turbo, then from the turbo to the stock muffler. It uses the drivers side lower valve cover for a drainback, and the intake plumbing comes up and around the back side for a nearly invisible turbosystem... I've even had people toy around and put the stock air cleaner box, cut out around the piping, back in position so you cannot tell that the engine is not stock from the engine bay
The 353hp Stage 1 is set up more like a 930, placing the turbo in the back, by the distributor and using a similar j-tube setup. It uses one of our mufflers, thus the power increase, but otherwise is quite similar. The plumbing runs diagonally across the engine to the afm, and with the large K&N air filter over the drivers side fuel rail, it's quite obvious that theres something going on there.
The 375hp Stage one runs all of the options. It uses equal length stainless steel headers, a 304S muffler and the turbo in the same position as the 353hp version. It's been clocked at 4.3sec 0-60 and a 12.9 sec 1/4 at 114mph in a 3300lb 87 Carrera. That particular car was quite heavy due to the roll cage installed. I've run this system quite easily to redline in top gear with usa gearing, or about 187mph.
The Stage 1 upgrade adds an intercooler, clutch package, and an upgraded a/c system to relocate the a/c condenser under the chassis. This allows up to .7 bar boost and about 425 hp based on the 375hp non-intercooled Stage 1. The other two sytems would be about 385/403hp with the upgrade applied.
All of the Stage 1' have exceptional boost response as they're based on the na engine using the stock compression ratio of 9.5/1 for usa models. The stock drivability is not only maintained, but quite improved as the added boost, even at light throttle, adds quite a bit of torque to what was already there.
Boost onset occurs at approximately 1800 rpm's with full boost coming in at around 25-2700 rpm's depending on the system. So, during normal driving conditions, boost is nearly always available instantly.
The Stage 1's feel more like a large displacement high powered engine when driving them as the high compression ratio and exceptional boost response would fool most people into thinking that the engine isn't even turbocharged.

Todd Knighton
Protomotive Inc.

P.S. On 1987-1988 models, Porsche had gone to Kohlbenschmidt for p/c's and they were cast and alusil. Very low quality. These engines are not recommmended for any upgrades due to reliability factors. Some of these cars did come with the Mahle's, like the 1984-1986 and 1989 models all did, and you can easily tell by jacking up the car and counting the number of fins on the cylinder... If it has 11 it's a mahle If it has 10 it's not

He is going to get back to me w/ prices... what do you guys think? What about the P.S info- 87-88 models having a weak engine??? I guess it is time to count fins!

carnut169 · carnut169's Garage

Gulp.... here are the prices:
$5401.42 parts only Stage 1/side
$65??.?? parts only J-tube
$7236.85 parts only Stage 1/headers
$4049.45 parts only Stage 1 upgrade (requires base Stage 1 installation)

I guess if we are to put that kind of $$ into the engine we can choose between SOK's supercharger and the turbo kits. Again, thoughts?

Doug Zielke · 01-11-2002, 12:02 PM

My only thought is: 335 to 375hp? Mmmm...mmmm....good! Perfect match for a strong engine like the 3.0 SC.

Hellgate · 01-11-2002, 12:20 PM

When I rebuilt my '87 motor back in '99 the p's & c's were Mahle. My motor had valve guide issues hence the rebuild.

Also, he must have added ballast to get a Carrera to weight 3300 lbs.

I would be really worried about engine longevity with the compression ratio being so high. If I'm not mistaken the Turbos of the same era have a c/r in the 7's.

If you really want a Turbo I would suggest just finding a nice used one. There a great deals galore out there. I looked at a very nice '91 Turbo this summer at a dealership for only $43k with a resealed/rerung motor and trany, and warranty from the dealership. Post-911 prices are even better.

R22tech · R22tech's Garage

Sean, are you just trying to make a project so you can justify having the lift in your new garage? C'mon, fess up. Regardless, I'll be happy to supervise and make beer runs during the project.

BTW: those prices are about 1/2 the cost of the SoK superchargers. I do agree that turbocharging puts more stress on the engine than supercharging, and if it were me- I would go with the stage 1 335hp turbo system or a supercharger for that reason.

dean · 01-11-2002, 06:29 PM

Those prices don't seem too bad. Don't forget you own a Porsche.
Dean

masraum · 01-12-2002, 02:41 AM

You may want to jump over to the Rennlist email list. One of the guys there with an '89 turbo look is turning his car into a real turbo with one of these kits. His name is Mervyn ah Young. Havent' heard much about his experience, but if it's not done then it should be really, REALLY close at this point.

juan ruiz · juan ruiz's Garage

Guys i THINK I CAN HELP ! I have one of those TURBO KITS is what they call the economical or on the side is in my 88 carrera,so you want some inf? here goes:

Turbocharged 3.2 with no internal modifications,no headers,no intercooler at .5 bar of boost (7 psi) Dyno at 320 hp,276 Rwhp,over 4,000 running miles on it not ONE problem,run extremely good in the 5000RPM Range,turbo lag is present but i learn hoe to drive and minimize it a bit at top speed as long as you keep you foot down she will go,you will run out of road first.
Hope this help. Pictures at my web site if interested.

Regards Juan
http://MY88911.homestead.com/newwebpage.html

930fan · 01-12-2002, 11:44 AM

One big mistake (or exaggeration) in his reply to you. 3.2 Carreras are geared to do 24.5mph/1000rpm in top gear. Therfore, to do 187mph, it would have to run at 7632rpm with standard gearing which is way funky when the redline is 6400rpm (156.8mph). The acceleration numbers seem plausible though in perfect conditions.

I say get a 930. It would be more cost effective on the long run especially if you find one with some mods on them.

epbrown · 01-12-2002, 12:19 PM

Boost seems to come on kind of early with the kit (1500-1800 rpm, full on 900 rpm later). Wouldn't that make city driving somewhat challenging? I thought the 930's boost hit full-on at 3500 or so?

Emanuel

john walker's workshop · 01-12-2002, 12:31 PM

if you don't open the throttle much, as in city driving, there is little, if any boost. you gotta have air to compress for boost to happen and that relates to the throttle position.

masraum · 01-12-2002, 01:43 PM

If you do this upgrade don't forget to upgrade the brakes too. If you've got extra "go" you need extra "stop". If you change the rev limiter in the a 3.2 then you should change the rod bolts and the valve springs/retainers. 3.2L cars are limited by valve float above the stock rev limit which is why the 3.2L Club sport used different (lighter) intake valves for a rev limit increase of only about 300rpm. Also the rod bolts on the 3.2L cars are a mm smaller than on the 3.0 and are a known weak spot. Other than that all I've heard is good things about the knowledge and quality of the protomotive group, but I have no first hand experience.