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1986 Targa 1972 RS clone
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MBecker911 View Post
I'm still not convinced. If 90% of the cops are decent, hardworking guys trying to do the right thing, why don't they call out and get rid of that 10% that are no good ? Seems like the bad cops should fear the good cops, not the other way around.
Call out and get rid of the 10% is not as easy as it sounds... it's not like a job in the private sector where you can just say .Hey you are fired.

In order for a sworn police officer to be terminated (except in the case of being charged criminally) he has to be brought up on departmental charges for a serious enough offense. Being an A-hole is not enough, bad judgement, poor people skills none of that is enough.
Once charged he/she is given a hearing.. this can take a year... once the hearing takes place, if the charges are sustained then it goes to the office of administrative law (at least in my state). This could take another year. Then if the judge rules in favor of termination he may appeal which could take even longer.

So overall it can take almost 3-5 years and hundreds of thousands of dollars in legal fees to try and terminate an officer...and you have to pay thier legal fees as well. Then if you fail to prove the case for termination he will sue you for wrongful termination

So unless the officer is charged criminally it is not an easy process

Old 11-02-2010, 04:59 PM
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What if the ATM only gives out 300 euro a day?
You wait..
Old 11-03-2010, 01:59 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #122 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magnuskgc View Post
Call out and get rid of the 10% is not as easy as it sounds... it's not like a job in the private sector where you can just say .Hey you are fired.

In order for a sworn police officer to be terminated (except in the case of being charged criminally) he has to be brought up on departmental charges for a serious enough offense. Being an A-hole is not enough, bad judgement, poor people skills none of that is enough.
Once charged he/she is given a hearing.. this can take a year... once the hearing takes place, if the charges are sustained then it goes to the office of administrative law (at least in my state). This could take another year. Then if the judge rules in favor of termination he may appeal which could take even longer.

So overall it can take almost 3-5 years and hundreds of thousands of dollars in legal fees to try and terminate an officer...and you have to pay thier legal fees as well. Then if you fail to prove the case for termination he will sue you for wrongful termination

So unless the officer is charged criminally it is not an easy process
Well said.

Plus there is a club mentality... It's hard to understand unless you've experienced it.
They call us civilians and we are excluded from their world. They drink together and their social lives are intertwined.
So the (bad) 10% remain hidden in this world... It's considered a terrible thing to "lag" on your fellow cop.

Also... Once you're a cop it's like being a minor celebrity. How many cop shows are on TV? How many movies are there about cops and/or criminals?
You get to walk around in public in a good looking uniform and a pistol on your hip... Is it any wonder some rotten eggs are attracted to the job.

That may sound immature or simplistic but a lot of people live their lives based on what they see on TV.
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Old 11-03-2010, 02:40 AM
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If you don't want the attention, don't drive the most iconic sports car of the past 50 years. nobody here complains about kids waving or people stopping to tell them stories about a sports car they owned when they were young. for each bad experience any of us have had with the police or some one else, there are hundreds of good stories.
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Old 11-03-2010, 02:56 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #124 (permalink)
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Old 11-03-2010, 04:06 AM
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Originally Posted by paulgtr View Post
If you don't want the attention, don't drive the most iconic sports car of the past 50 years. nobody here complains about kids waving or people stopping to tell them stories about a sports car they owned when they were young. for each bad experience any of us have had with the police or some one else, there are hundreds of good stories.

good stories don't come with outrageous fees and points on your driving record
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Old 11-03-2010, 04:08 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #126 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 911cop
One last urban legend that is common and that I saw several times in this thread is the idea that that officers write tickets for the revenue or for promotion. This is false. I have never heard of a department where officers get promoted based on ticket numbers. Officers are expected to work, and part of working is writing tickets, so if an officer has not written any tickets they will probably be looked at as not doing their job, but ticket numbers do not factor into promotion.

that, my friend, is just not true. there are tons of stories out there about ex-leo admitting to quotas and a quick google will yield many stories. here is but one of them:

Officer Alleges Illegal Ticket Quota At Local University - San Diego News Story - KGTV San Diego

they can be called many different things like "productivity goals" but it is all about revenue. no one can deny that fact, and if they do their head is in the sand. most communities, especially the small ones like the one i was stopped in, could not survive without the revenue from tickets.

You are talking about two different things: quotas, and whether or not a department/city really profits from tickets.

Quotas: Yes they absolutely d
o exist, under various names. In my department if you are working patrol you are expected to average one ticket per working day over the course of a year. Many departments that I know of have the same/similar expectations, and some departments have a higher expectation or truly none at all.

Having a number of tickets that is expected to be written, however, does not mean that the city/department is actually profiting from them. I suppose in a very small town where there are fewer administrative steps they might actually get a decent amount of the money, but in any medium or larger size city this just isn't the case. Too many steps for the city to actually make money on it.
Old 11-03-2010, 10:03 AM
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Originally Posted by daleflesburg View Post
...................................

I have been stopped maybe 50 times, sometimes in the middle of the night just so he (or she) could smell my breath, sometimes to find out what I was doing there, sometimes because I was speeding, once in the middle of NOWHERE because I stopped at a rural stop sign and turned right and did not use a turn signal (I wanted to say there was no one around to signal to, but I did not).
Well, there was at least one car to signal to.
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Old 11-03-2010, 10:12 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #128 (permalink)
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Been following this thread since it began and feel I must chime in. Even going one mile an hour over the speed limit is enough probable cause for a police officer to stop a car. Most good police officers aren't concerned with writing tickets. Most stop cars for these infractions to determine if the driver (or passenger): is drunk, has drugs, has a weapon, has a warrant, is leaving the scene of a crime, etc. Some common courtesy will usually get you on your way with a warning or a lesser ticket (fail to produce a document, etc.). A lot of posts say that drivers were pulled over for driving on the median, failing to signal a lane change, etc. What you might determine is a "ridiculous" law is a law all the same. All professions have rude people. Police officers are people, too. Yes there are bad cops; and good cops sometimes have bad days, but I can guarantee arguing with a police officer on the roadside is not going to get you let go with a warning.

I'm surprised this link hasn't been brought up yet: Still has me rolling on the floor since I last saw it 10 years ago.

YouTube - Chris Rock - Police training
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Last edited by djcdmv; 11-03-2010 at 11:31 AM..
Old 11-03-2010, 11:22 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #129 (permalink)
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AFD

You may want to brush up on your law as things have changed dramtically since 1968. Search and Seize laws have changed and I don't know that under the current laws that was a search and seize. Probable cause is in the eye of the beholder. Police are using body language and situation awareness tactics to infer guilt, not profiling but damn close to it. I suspect there is more to this story than what was written and most police would have hauled nineball to the station for using the language that he used and had no issue in court over it. Don't get me wrong I don't agree with these tactics and if you look at the percentages of problems/violence with motorist harming police I believe you would find no marked increase to warrant these tactics justifying their need to react in a manner that "protects" them from harm. It's easy to say they need to receive respect for authority and I have no problem affording that but to react in a manner demanding respect for ultimate authority just because you can and using intimidation tactics to assure the response is not appropriate in my opinion. Treating average jo blow citizen like he might have a bazook and want to blow away every cop is very far from the truth on the street. Thank you 9/11 and the Patriot Act for squashing our rights.
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Old 11-03-2010, 11:35 AM
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The Illinois state trooper that let me out of a 135 mph ticket was pushing 60. I don't think age has anything to do with being a curmudgeon, if anything I think it helps a cop deal with the day-to-day nonsense. I see the crappy attitude mostly from the young guys trying to prove something to themselves more than to me.

Lindy
Old 11-03-2010, 11:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sc_rufctr View Post
Well said.

Plus there is a club mentality... It's hard to understand unless you've experienced it.
They call us civilians and we are excluded from their world. They drink together and their social lives are intertwined.
So the (bad) 10% remain hidden in this world... It's considered a terrible thing to "lag" on your fellow cop.

Also... Once you're a cop it's like being a minor celebrity. How many cop shows are on TV? How many movies are there about cops and/or criminals?
You get to walk around in public in a good looking uniform and a pistol on your hip... Is it any wonder some rotten eggs are attracted to the job.

That may sound immature or simplistic but a lot of people live their lives based on what they see on TV.
Yes but don't forget we also deal with going out to dinner and see the scumbag we locked up two days ago. Usually when we are with out children. I personally have had this happen... and had he make a scene in front of my child saying "I see you.. I see your family now.... I will see them again....
We get those knocks on the door or phone call to "ask us a question" about the neighbor's kid who got locked up
We get to worry that if we have a arguement with our wives or girl friend that they know if they lie or just say the right thing we can loose our jobs

So there are some benefits I will not deny that.. but there are also cost associated with it.
Old 11-03-2010, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Dan Owens View Post
AFD

You may want to brush up on your law as things have changed dramtically since 1968. Search and Seize laws have changed and I don't know that under the current laws that was a search and seize. Probable cause is in the eye of the beholder. Police are using body language and situation awareness tactics to infer guilt, not profiling but damn close to it. I suspect there is more to this story than what was written and most police would have hauled nineball to the station for using the language that he used and had no issue in court over it.
what possible reason relating to language could they have used as an excuse to arrest me? freedom of speech is a right, and if anyone had their rights violated in this situation it was myself. was i guilty of speeding? yes. was it the officer's job to explain to me that based on the car i drive i do not get special priviledges such as being able to drive on public streets like they are a race course? no. he saw it was a porsche and got a hard-on for me, end of story. if he had been able to find anything else out of line, anything at all, the ending would have been different. but it wasn't. he lost all credibility when he made the statement about smelling alcohol on someone who has not had a drink in over 36 months. from that point on i was relatively certain i would walk away with a ticket of some sorts and i was right.

you can suspect anything you like, but by not being there all you have done is made an assumption and we all know what that means. if there had been "more to the story" i would not have been available to make the first post to begin with, but rather sitting in a cell somewhere. i can only hope one day a similar situation presents itself to you so that you may feel the same fear and utter disbelief that it caused me to go through. maybe it is normal for you, but being pulled out of my car and frisked is not something that happens with any regularity to me. hell, this is the first time it has ever happened in almost 25 years of driving.
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- He taught a german shepard how to bark in spanish
He is.... nineball. I don't always drive sports cars, but when I do I drive a 1983 911SC Targa. Stay fast my friends.
Old 11-03-2010, 12:17 PM
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Nineball the truth is the cops can do anything they like and thats fact. Now afterward you are free to press charges, sue etc. This all assuming you are still alive. No one likes that feeling of helplessness in these situations. Have you ever heard the phrase DEAD right? Consider yourself lucky that only your ego got bruised....
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Old 11-03-2010, 01:23 PM
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Cop?

"Hyper Vigilance" Mutually Exclusive"

You are not a cop.

JK
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Old 11-03-2010, 03:33 PM
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I read this humorus anecdote on another forum and thought others might be amused by it in the context of this thread. Obviously I don't condone or advocate speeding or this method to avoid a ticket...................


An older lady gets pulled over for speeding...

Older Woman: Is there a problem, Officer?

Officer: Ma'am, you were speeding.

Older Woman: Oh, I see.

Officer: Can I see your license please?

Older Woman: I'd give it to you but I don't have one.

Officer: Don't have one?

Older Woman: Lost it, 4 years ago for drunk driving.

Officer: I see...Can I see your vehicle registration papers please.

Older Woman: I can't do that.

Officer: Why not?

Older Woman: I stole this car.

Officer: Stole it?

Older Woman: Yes, and I killed and hacked up the owner.

Officer: You what?

Older Woman: His body parts are in plastic bags in the trunk if you want to see.

The Officer looks at the woman and slowly backs away to his car and calls for back up. Within minutes 5 police cars circle the car. A senior officer slowly approaches the car, clasping his half drawn gun.

Officer 2: Ma'am, could you step out of your vehicle please! The woman steps out of her vehicle.

Older woman: Is there a problem sir?

Officer 2: One of my officers told me that you have stolen this car and murdered the owner.

Older Woman: Murdered the owner?

Officer 2: Yes, could you please open the trunk of your car, please.

The woman opens the trunk, revealing nothing but an empty trunk.

Officer 2: Is this your car, ma'am?

Older Woman: Yes, here are the registration papers. The officer is quite stunned.

Officer 2: One of my officers claims that you do not have a driving license.

The woman digs into her handbag and pulls out a clutch purse and hands it to the officer.

The officer examines the license. He looks quite puzzled.

Officer 2: Thank you ma'am, one of my officers told me you didn't have a license, that you stole this car, and that you murdered and hacked up the owner.

Older Woman: Bet the liar told you I was speeding, too.
Old 11-04-2010, 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Quickstep192 View Post
I read this humorus anecdote on another forum and thought others might be amused by it in the context of this thread. Obviously I don't condone or advocate speeding or this method to avoid a ticket...................


An older lady gets pulled over for speeding...

Older Woman: Is there a problem, Officer?

Officer: Ma'am, you were speeding.

Older Woman: Oh, I see.

Officer: Can I see your license please?

Older Woman: I'd give it to you but I don't have one.

Officer: Don't have one?

Older Woman: Lost it, 4 years ago for drunk driving.

Officer: I see...Can I see your vehicle registration papers please.

Older Woman: I can't do that.

Officer: Why not?

Older Woman: I stole this car.

Officer: Stole it?

Older Woman: Yes, and I killed and hacked up the owner.

Officer: You what?

Older Woman: His body parts are in plastic bags in the trunk if you want to see.

The Officer looks at the woman and slowly backs away to his car and calls for back up. Within minutes 5 police cars circle the car. A senior officer slowly approaches the car, clasping his half drawn gun.

Officer 2: Ma'am, could you step out of your vehicle please! The woman steps out of her vehicle.

Older woman: Is there a problem sir?

Officer 2: One of my officers told me that you have stolen this car and murdered the owner.

Older Woman: Murdered the owner?

Officer 2: Yes, could you please open the trunk of your car, please.

The woman opens the trunk, revealing nothing but an empty trunk.

Officer 2: Is this your car, ma'am?

Older Woman: Yes, here are the registration papers. The officer is quite stunned.

Officer 2: One of my officers claims that you do not have a driving license.

The woman digs into her handbag and pulls out a clutch purse and hands it to the officer.

The officer examines the license. He looks quite puzzled.

Officer 2: Thank you ma'am, one of my officers told me you didn't have a license, that you stole this car, and that you murdered and hacked up the owner.

Older Woman: Bet the liar told you I was speeding, too.
Quickstep, that is class! where do I send the bill, I have a huge lump on the back of my head where I fell off my chair laughing!!!
Old 11-04-2010, 02:28 PM
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funny

Now that is FUNNY!!
Old 11-04-2010, 03:18 PM
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Originally Posted by scoe911 View Post
Nineball the truth is the cops can do anything they like and thats fact. Now afterward you are free to press charges, sue etc. This all assuming you are still alive. No one likes that feeling of helplessness in these situations. Have you ever heard the phrase DEAD right? Consider yourself lucky that only your ego got bruised....

No cops can not do whatever they want. There are way more laws, rules regulations then you can imagine. More then any of your jobs.

Just because it is an unpopular job that they do everybody hates them.
Old 11-04-2010, 03:21 PM
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Dickhead. Card-carryin', dues-payin', dyed-in-the-wool Dickhead.

My best advice is to get the automatic waiver or whatever, and forget the whole thing.

More fun, more expensive, more stressful, more dangerous and potentially more satisfying would be to get a lawyer, plead not guilty and see this MF in court. In the meantime, subpoena everything the lawyer can think of, ESPECIALLY the video (assuming there is one). And any and all documents related to video camera installations in that particular vehicle, and any and all policy memoranda related to use of video cameras. In other words, if he tries to pretend there is no video, other documents should clarify that there is a video, or at least there should be one. Audio also, and separately. From there, you see if a lawsuit would be more fun, or if talking to the news agencies and writing letters to a Chief of Police and Mayor would be the most fun.

This guy needs to be night watchman at a warehouse several miles outside town.

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Old 11-04-2010, 03:29 PM
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