some guy used the heater blower to...

[Kurt B]

ram air into his airfilter.
Now, the way it's designed, it couldn't take much pressure. I'm wondering if you could modify it slightly (beef up the clip area, maybe even seal it) and ram air into using a fan.

Anytime you increase the density of the air, you're turbocharging the system and improving combustion, and the only matter is how much.

Any improvement will help some. Oh, and you could always put a cool collar on the snout of the air filter housing and chill the air before it goes in.

This part is a joke. But the fan stuff isn't.
Who was that guy...and what did he notice?

[beepbeep]

No...engine is breathing lot's of air...

supercharging engine to such degree so you could feel tyhe difference would take at least 5 hp....which is 3kW...and that blower is what? 2-300Watts??

Roots blowers typically use around 10 to 30HP from the axle...

[JDaniel]

Mark Kibbort (sp) ? I think it was called the e-ram or something like that. If you check the archives at rennlist you should be able to find it easily enough.

I've seen leaf blowers hooked up to the intake...

[Kurt B]

the reason I mention this is...we have all noticed the improvement of our cars during colder weather, especially when the humidity is low. Think about it, how much of a difference in air density between a hot summer's day and a cold winter's day?

Anyone have numbers for that? Must be some meteorologist amateur who knows that kind of thing.

If we can simulate that at least, then imagine how much better it'll ride on those chill days!

Ram thingy is lame anyway...Between my two porsches, I've got spare blowers coming out of my wazoo. Hell, I'll even hook them up in series for a super effect.

There'll be a line of sequential footwell heater blowers running atop my engine! That'll show those rice boys what it's all about. Just plain old American ingenuity!
Muhahaha

[JDaniel]

Maybe you can hook up all your old AC stuff to blow supercooled air into the intake

I'm not knocking the concept, it's just that there is a tremendous amount of air moving around in the engine compartment, and it's relatively fresh (ie-not that hot stuff you feel when stopped). You'd need to supply the intake with more air, that's colder, than it can normally inhale... and that's a lot!

There are some people that have run ducting from the outside of the engine bay directly to the intake, and they swear it makes a difference... and you can't test that on a "rolling-road".

Who knows?

[autobonrun]

Originally posted by Kurt B
the reason I mention this is...we have all noticed the improvement of our cars during colder weather, especially when the humidity is low. Think about it, how much of a difference in air density between a hot summer's day and a cold winter's day?

Anyone have numbers for that? Must be some meteorologist amateur who knows that kind of thing.

If we can simulate that at least, then imagine how much better it'll ride on those chill days!

Ram thingy is lame anyway...Between my two porsches, I've got spare blowers coming out of my wazoo. Hell, I'll even hook them up in series for a super effect.

There'll be a line of sequential footwell heater blowers running atop my engine! That'll show those rice boys what it's all about. Just plain old American ingenuity!
Muhahaha

I'm not a weatherman but in designing controls for refineries, density of various gases comes up fairly frequently. The density of air at 1 atmosphere (ie. 0 psig or 14.7 psia) and 60 degF is 0.0764 lb/ft3.

Dropping the air temperature from 60 degF to 30 deg F only increases the density up to .0811 lb/ft3. However, increasing the pressure from 0 Psig to 5 psig increases air density to .1024 lb/ft3.

Pressure has a much greater effect on a gas's density than does temperature. Play around with these two equations and you'll see what I mean. Without using the whole PV =zNRT equation, you can get very close using the following:

Density for a given temperature T1 (T1 is in degF)

density = [ (60 + 460)/ (T1 +460) ] * .0764

Temperature is in the denominator since increases in temperature above the base of 60 degF cause decreases in air density.

Density at a given pressure P1 (P1 is in Psig)

density = [(P1 + 14.7) / 14.7 ] *.0764

P1 is in the numerator since increases in Pressure cause increases in air density.

With respect to your specific question of summer vs winter, I calculated that there is a 12.5% reduction in air density going from 30degF to 100degF. I'm not sure what this corresponds to in HP change.

This may have been more than you asked for but with the above two equations for P and T, you can calculate the density at various points. Note if both P and T change, you can calculate each effect individually, multiply them together, then multiply that number by .0764.

[island911]

"Lisa, in this household we OBEY the laws of thermodynamics!"
Homer J. Simpson

originally posted by Jim T.

[island911]

Originally posted by Kurt B
the reason I mention this is...we have all noticed the improvement of our cars during colder weather, especially when the humidity is low. Think about it, how much of a difference in air density between a hot summer's day and a cold winter's day?
. . .

While it wasn't originally intended for this application, you are in this Mcyver mode.
So; Might I sugest Bill Krause's bag_o_ice


I hear his super duty bag_o_dryice is still in development. . .you may want to hold out for that product.



edit: seriously, people would put ice on their intake manifold for 1/4 mile runs.

[Kurt B]

Just like every pound, every 1/4 HP adds up.
I'm going to investigate the matter.
And maybe those miniature RC jets could be used to force air into the intake.
Hook up one of those babies, and have that little jet fire up at certain RPMS. Don't tell me it wouldn't sound nifty.

And while most people go fill their tanks, I'd be filling a tiny tank with the jet fuel as well.

Okay, now even I am having fun with this post.
I will not however, surrender the dream of 3.2 NA Carrera primacy.
(unless I can get into the SCWDP deal since my car was, officially, made in September, 1983)

[marcesq]

Kurt:

Here is the home page for the fan charger:

http://www.electricsupercharger.com/www-electricsupercharger-com/autoprod.htm

[ohecht]

I can see why so many customers installed their own micro-switches on the throttle linkages to activate the electric blower....

the "accelerator pedal switch" they show in the parts picture is just a common momentary button, used for horns, etc.

I would not be mounting that under my gas pedal (and running wires) to activate my either.

Makes you wonder about the design and claims of the rest of the kit when that is their solution to activating the thing. It is universal, I will admit, though.

Olivier

[tbitz]

Kurt,

I did what you mention in your first post last summer. I took a piece of 3" aluminium dryer hose and ducted taped it to the left outlet from the fan (this is the one that goes to the left heat exchanger). The other end was ducted taped to the air filter intake. I actually hooked up a pressure gauge to see if I was getting any increase in pressure, but I could not see any increase. I removed everything when I put on my pre-75 heat exchangers.

I believe CIS system doesn't compensate for increase in air density, so if you are "blowing air through" the metering plate you have to find another way to richen the mixture.

I have also though of using a RC ducted fan engine for this purpose. They deliver about 5Hp. As for the Jet engine idea, I have built one from scratch a few year ago. I also though of using it to drive a compressor. At 95,000rpm the sound of this engine is amazing.

[island911]

Originally posted by tbitz

I believe CIS system doesn't compensate for increase in air density, so if you are "blowing air through" the metering plate you have to find another way to richen the mixture.

The lamda sensor CIS system does compensate for increase in air density. While true, the sensor plate response to air density change is not nearly as good as the "hot wire" type of air flow sensor, the O2 (lamda) sensor will compensate for these small change.

[Early_S_Man]

This was first mentioned in a humorous vein, I think, during the 'cool collar' threads ... electric supercharger, was the terminology ... probably even less efficient that electric heating of 911 interiors in the wintertime!