Does this 911 have a future?
 

My father has a non-operating 1967 911 that he has decided that he wants to get running one more time. He always wanted to do the work himself, but will not have the time.

But, there is a reason that this beauty is sitting in a garage. Can the collective wisdom of the forum help me decide if the idea to get the car running is a pipe dream or reasonably feasible?

Here is what I know: This is a 1967 911 with "S running gear". I am not sure exactly what gear is of the S variant. This is a single owner vehicle (picked up personally by my dad at the factory and toured Europe before being shipped over), but maintenance records are lost/buried in old paper.

This car has less than 49K miles.

When new, the car was driven in snow in Wisconsin (warning: road salt). On Christmas Eve in 1975 car was hit in the drivers front side by an oncoming out of control car. As far as I know, the damage was limited to driver side fender and door.

The car was garaged until 1988 or so when the body was repaired and the engine rebuilt. It was driven again until some time in 1990 when on the way home my dad hit a pothole/road crack/manhole cover/something and the torsion tube failed. He drive the car 2 blocks dragging the rear and into his garage. It was professionally moved from that garage to a different garage about 5 years ago.

While garaged, the interior has developed what we think is a mold problem. There are white snowflake like growths over most of the vinyl surfaces.

The topside of this car is beautiful with no visible rust. From what I can see the floor pan is also solid. But obviously, the notorious nooks and crannies were not adequately addressed in 1988 or the torsion tube would not have failed.

I have spent way too much time reading this forum so I know that a thorough rust inspection is in order and that torsion tube failures are repairable. What other surprises are we in for? Do you think this car has a future?

We'll need lots of photos, it's hard to give any advice/opinions without seeing what you have.
I'd try to keep it if you can...

Pictures and Numbers
 

Sure, it has a future. If it is a genuine numbers matching 1967 S Coupe, it should have a good future. If it a normal 1967 Coupe, it could still be worth the effort to bring back.

Rust repair on these early bodies is very labor intensive, and we are talking skilled labor here. If you learn as you go, the work could become pretty daunting, unless you are able to develop some journeyman welding skills quickly.

Almost all of the rest has the potential to be a DIY program, but without a solid chassis it is kinda pointless to go there.

So I say take a bunch of pictures underneath, inside trunk, floorboards, door jambs, the torsion tube, etc.

Then give us the numbers for the car engine, trans, and any other history you may have. There are very experienced folks here that can guide you in your decision making,

Good Luck

Do you want to know what the worst part of that whole story is?

The fact that that the car was repaired in 1988. That, not the primary rust or even the accident damage, will be your biggest stumbling block if you want to bring the car back. A lot of the techniques of the day were not up to today's standards, e.g. oxy-acetylene welding, brazing, there weren't the restoration parts available etc.

It is probably a $50,000 job to properly restore an SWB 911, that does not include the engine.
It would take at least a year for a professional and several years if you were going to do it yourself. That is almost without regard to the level of capital you wish to throw at it.

All that said, it's your father's car, with a unique provenance that makes it different than every other one on the planet. Why not do it? The numbers will help, but at the end of the day, you have the opportunity to restore a car that's been part of your family, that's something that nobody else can appreciate or purchase with any amount of money.

Let us know the numbers and we'll point you in the right direction. I've been working on '065 for about four years now in earnest. . . should be done for the Savannah Parade. . . .

you don't have to properly restore it - for $50,000

Just get it to being a fun car you can drive around

Photos, photos and more photos will definitely help the experts here. They'll give you plenty to think about.

If I personally was in your situation, I'd first clean the heck out of the car, and look at getting it running in some sort of form as inexpensively (which might still be a lot) as possible. It may not be worth bringing back to showroom quality. But it might make a nice driver. . . .

Rwebb is right in that regard.

Once again, photos and more info here will help the true experts on this board give you the advice to make your decision - if not easier - then at least more informed.

Good luck.

Thanks for the good feedback. I should probably have been more clear on my purpose.

My dad has neither the resources or time to "restore" this car. That may come, but we would love to get it running safely so he (OK, we) could have the joy of driving it. So, let's start with the goal of "fun driver."

I'll see if I can get some pics and the VIN number. I'm in Minneapolis and the car is in Milwaukee - so it might be a bit.

I am most concerned with what things we could miss. Obviously the torsion tube was missed the first time round.

Is there anything besides a good thorough rust assessment that we should start with?

IMO, if i had a chance to restore a car my father bought new and kept this long, i would do it, if it was a worthy car, and a 67 911 to me would be more than worthy, even if you did have to spend 50g on it, (and believe it or not thats not that hard) get it running, drive it until the means to do it justice arrives.

check for rust first

flush the old brake fluid out by removing the rubber hoses to the caliper - put NEW rubber hoses on; refill and bleed the brakes

Certainly it can be resurrected, the issue is at what cost. You'll be upside down in no time, which is not at al unique in this crowd. The question is: are you willing to spend more getting this particular vehicle up and running than you are scrapping it and buying an already running model for less money.
Weight that, and you'll be clear on your next move.
CATTMAN

OK, well it has been awhile, but I have some pictures and know a bit more about what is wrong with the car. I got underneath and got a picture of the torsion tube. It appears to be twisted open like one of those cans from Pillsbury biscuit dough. There is some slight surface rust on the outside of the tube, but it looks and feels solid.

I now learned that the day before the tube failed my dear old dad was driving "quickly" down a narrow country road with which he was unfamiliar. The road suddenly ended, he did a 180, managed to keep it on 2 wheels, and on the road. (Now why did he not tell me this when I was a teen learning to drive?) Does anyone think this could be the cause?

Anyway, the pics below show the car and torsion tubes. I inspected for rust in other areas the best I could and it really seems solid. The worst I found is also included.

So, here is the advise I am now looking for, if anyone can help:

After seeing the damage, does anyone have any experience fixing something like this (or having someone fix something like this)? What should I watch out for.

Any advice on a reputable shop in Milwaukee (preferred) or Minneapolis that would be adept on taking on this repair as well as an engine examination and rebuild, but would be comfortable having a dirty-old-definitely-non-museum quality 911 sitting in their shop.

I have more pics, but I don't want to overwhelm the thread.

Eric
http://i1100.photobucket.com/albums/...Drooping67.jpg
http://i1100.photobucket.com/albums/...orsionTube.jpg
http://i1100.photobucket.com/albums/.../WorstRust.jpg

"I have more pics, but I don't want to overwhelm the thread."

Please....overwhelm us! :)

Yes, more pictures. I've seen much worse restored.

Have you tried turning the motor over? Start by removing the spark plugs and squirting some WD40 or penetrating oil into the holes then turn it over by hand before using the starter. If its smooth, then put some oil into the plug holes and crank it with the starter. I'd cycle the starter on and off a half a dozen times, no longer than 30sec each time, with a long pause in between for the starter to cool. Now do a compression test to see what you're dealing with. Oh yeah make sure there is fresh oil in it before cranking with the starter.

Beautiful car and great colour, plus it's your Dads'! Keep it in the family and restore it as you get the cash. I'm not an expert and have no idea what it would cost to restore but it's your Dads! :))

Na, forget this one.
I'd be happy to help you, get it on a KLM flight from MSP to Amsterdam so you can use the extra garage space for better stuff....

Seriously: great original car - GO FOR IT !!!

Ask and you will have pelicans all over your garage willing to seriously help you.

W

Looks nice! And remember, you don't have to turn it into a concurs winner to enjoy it. Once the suspension is repaired and you have the car cleaned and running, it may well make a fun weekend driver. You can spend the next 20 years fixing it up if you want to. Don't be scared away thinking it's too daunting of a task. As others have said though, it would be prudent to make replacement of old rubber brake hoses a priority fairly early on in your project!

You may wish to pay a visit to Aaron at FlatSix in Minneapolis since you are in town. I enjoyed dealing with him and he may be able to look at your photos and offer some guidance on how to proceed. Lots of "old" cars like yours in his shop too. There are a couple of other recommended shops in Minneapolis too, but I have no experience dealing with them.

I would make every attempt at restoring this to a well-sorted driver if it were my Dad's car. I've seen much worse brought back to life. I think you should consider draining old gas and cleaning the fuel tank, fuel pump, and even the fuel lines before attempting to turn the engine over with the starter. The motor might be in great shape, but send some gooey-varnished gas through and you'll make more work for yourself in short order.

Cost of restoration: ??? Family owned car: Priceless.. See my signatureSmileWavy

Best advice yet! Aaron is the shop you want to do this right. Give him a call, he knows these cars and has done top notch restos.:)