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Blinker problem - 1982 SC
I'm having a strange blinker problem that I need a second opinion on.
With everything as it should be, when I hit the hazard switch, all car sidelights turn on, however there is no blinking. The tach lights are both off. If I ground the blue/white wire (pin C of blink relay, and goes to both direction lights in the tach), then blinking starts and the tach lights work as expected. If I pretend to turn left, the left car lights come on and then the RIGHT tach light comes on bright, but then dims. When the dimming occurs, the left tach light comes on as well. If I ground the blue/white wire, this goes away and everything works as it should. The same is true when turning right. The left tach light comes on bright but then dims and then the right tach light comes on at the same time. I've been studying the circuit diagram trying to understand how the relay is supposed to work. From doing tests it looks like both Pin 49A and Pin C "blink" with the relay. It seems that only Pin 49A is really supposed to "blink" and Pin C is supposed to stay ground. At least this is what my testing leads me to believe. I would love second opinions on this. I have a hard time believing a brand new relay is broken, but stranger things have happened. I did check the part numbers and the relay does seem to be the right model. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1290278598.jpg |
Here's the quick reference for German terminal numbers.
Terminal Definition ----------------------------------------------------------------------- IGNITION 1 Ignition coil, ignition distributor, low voltage ----------------------------------------------------------------------- (Ignition distributor with two separate electrical circuits) 1a to ignition contact breaker I 1b to ignition contact breaker II ----------------------------------------------------------------------- 2 short-circuit terminal (magneto ignition) 4 Ignition coil, ignition distributor, high voltage ----------------------------------------------------------------------- (ignition distributor with two separate electrical circuits) 4a from ignition coil I, terminal 4 4b from ignition coil II, terminal 4 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- 15 Switched + downstream of battery (output of ignition/driving switch) 15a Output at dropping resistor to ignition coil and starter ----------------------------------------------------------------------- GLOW PLUG AND STARTER SWITCH 17 Start 19 Preheat ----------------------------------------------------------------------- BATTERY 30 input from + battery terminal, direct 30a input from + terminal of battery II (12/24 V series-parallel battery switch) 31 Return line to battery - battery terminal or ground, direct 31b Return ine to negative battery terminal or ground, via switch or relay (switched negative) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- (12/24 V series-parallel battery) 31a Return line to - terminal of battery II 31c Return line to - terminal of battery I ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ELECTRIC MOTORS 32 Return line (Polarity reversal possible at terminals 32-33) 33 Main terminal connection (Polarity reversal possible at terminals 32-33) 33a Self-parking switch-off 33b Shunt field 33f For second lower-speed range 33g For third lower-speed range 33h For fourth lower-speed range 33L Counterclockwise rotation 33R Clockwise rotation ----------------------------------------------------------------------- STARTER 45 Separate starter relay, output; starter input (main current) 45a Output, starter I Input, starters I and II (Two-starter parallel operation) 45b Output, starter II (Two-starter parallel operation) 48 Terminal on starter and on start-repeating relay for monitoring starting procedure ----------------------------------------------------------------------- TURN SIGNAL FLASHER 49 Input 49a Output 49b Output, second turn-signal circuit 49c Output, third turn-signal circuit ----------------------------------------------------------------------- STARTER 50 Starter control (direct) 50a Output for starter control (Series-parallel battery switch) 50b Starter control with parallel operation of two starters with sequential control 50c Input at starting relay for starter I (Starting relay for sequential control of the engagement current during parallel operation of two starters) 50d Input at starting relay for starter I (Starting relay for sequential control of the engagement current during parallel operation of two starters) 50e Input, Start-locking relay 50f Output, Start-locking relay 50g Input, Start-repeating relay 50h Output, Start-repeating relay ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ALTERNATOR 51 DC voltage at rectifier 51e DC voltage at rectifier with choke coil for daytime driving ----------------------------------------------------------------------- TRAILER SIGNALS 52 Signals from trailer to towing vehicle, general ----------------------------------------------------------------------- WIPER MOTOR 53 Wiper motor, input (+) 53a Wiper (+), self-parking switch-off 53b Wiper (shunt winding) 53c Electric windshield-washer pump 53e Wiper (brake winding) 53i Wiper motor with permanent magnet and third brush (for higher speed) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- TRAILER SIGNAL 54 For lamp combinations and trailer plug connections TRAILER STOP LAMP 54g Pneumatic valve for additional retarding brake, electromagnetically actuated ----------------------------------------------------------------------- LIGHTING 55 Fog lamps 56 Headlamp 56a High beam, high-beam indicator lamp 56b Low beam 56d Headlamp-flasher contact 57 Side-marker lamp: motorcycles, mopeds. Abroad also cars, trucks, etc. 57a Parking lamp 57L Parking lamp, left 57R Parking lamp, right 58 Side-marker lamps, tail lamps, license-plate lamps and instrument-panel lamps 58b Tail-lamp changeover for single-axle tractors 58c Trailer plug-and-receptacle assembly for single-conductor tail-lamp cable with fuse in trailer 58d Variable-intensity instrument-panel lamp, tail-lamp and side-marker lamp 58L Side-marker lamp, left 58R Side-marker lamp, right; license-plate lamp ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ALTERNATOR (magneto, generator) 59 AC voltage, output Rectifier, input 59a Charging armature, output 59b Tail-lamp armature, output 59c Stop-lamp armature, output 61 Alternator charge-indicator lamp ----------------------------------------------------------------------- TONE-SEQUENCE CONTROL DEVICE 71 Input 71a Output to horns 1 & 2, low 71b Output to horns 1 & 2, high 72 Alarm switch (rotating beacon) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- INTERIOR 75 Radio, cigarette lighter 76 Speaker 77 Door-valve control ----------------------------------------------------------------------- SWITCHES ----------(Break-contact and changeover switches)---------------------- 81 Input 81a 1st output, break side 81b 2nd output, break side ----------(Make-contact switches)-------------------------------------- 82 Input 82a 1st output 82b 2nd output 82z 1st input 82y 2nd input ----------(Multiple-position switches)--------------------------------- 83 Input 83a Output, position 1 83b Output, position 2 83L Output, left-hand position 83R Output, right-hand position ----------------------------------------------------------------------- CURRENT RELAY 84 Input, actuator and relay contact 84a Output, actuator 84b Output, relay contact ----------------------------------------------------------------------- SWITCHING RELAY 85 Output, actuator (end of winding to ground or negative) 86 Start of winding 86a Start of winding or 1st winding 86b Winding tap or 2nd winding ----------(relay contact for break and changeover contacts)------------ 87 Input 87a 1st output (break side) 87b 2nd output 87c 3rd output 87z 1st input 87y 2nd input 87x 3rd input ----------(Relay contact for make contact)----------------------------- 88 Input ----------(Relay contact for make and changeover contacts (make side))- 88a 1st output 88b 2nd output 88c 3rd output ----------(Relay contact for make contact)----------------------------- 88z 1st input 88y 2nd input 88x 3rd input ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ALTERNATOR and VOLTAGE REGULATOR GENERATOR and GENERATOR REGULATOR B+ Battery positive B- Battery negative D+ Dynamo postive D- Dynamo negative DF Dynamo field DF1 Dynamo field 1 DF2 Dynamo field 2 ----------(Alternator with separate rectifier)-------------------------- J Excitation winding positive K Excitation winding negative Mp Center point terminal U,V,W Alternator terminals ------------------------------------------------------------------------ DIRECTION INDICATOR (turn-signal flasher) C First indicator lamp C0 Main terminal connection for separate indicator circuits actuated by the turn-signal switch C2 Second indicator lamp C3 Third indicator lamp (e.g., when towing two trailers) L Turn-signal lamps, left R Turn-signal lamps, right |
Looking at the diagram
Terminal 49 of the turn signal flasher gets switched power from term 15 if the HS is not activated and from battery power term 30 if activated. Terminal 31 of the turn signal flasher is the ground Termina 49a is the flasher output. If the HS is not activated it goes to the turn signal switch input 49a. Selecting a L or R signal sends the flasher output to either term 49L or 49R. From 49L and R the signal goes to the right and left exterior bulbs and right and left tachometer TS indicators respectively. From the TS indicator bulbs in the tach the paths goes to terminal C When the HS is activated several poles close giving the flasher battery power and the output 49a goes to R, L and the red light in the switch simultaneously. R and L power the exterior bulbs and the instrument indicators that side respectively. I'm guessing you changed the signal flasher. Do the turn signals work normally when the hazard switch is not activated? Did you use one with 4 terminals marked c, 31, 49 and 49a such as PN 914-618-303-11. I'm no expert on 82s but have you also checked the hazard flasher switch? What happens when you push in the hazard switch? Now what happens when you then activate left turn signal. What about right turn signal. I think that's the box with 8 terminals marked 15, 30, 31, 49, 49a, 58, R & L in the diagram. From the diagram posted it appears the left and right turn signal lights are isolated until the flasher switch is depressed and a failure in one of the several poles of that switch could cause this. |
Thanks for the list. I will print that out and add it to my collection of documents!
Also thanks for the electrical walk through. It matches what I was thinking as well. The blinkers were working fine until just recently. In my quest of trying to track down why the e-brake light was constantly on (which is now resolved), I think I blew up the old relay (I was jumpering it trying to figure out how it worked). So I bought a new relay with the part # you mentioned. It does have 4 pins and they are labeled like the wiring diagram. I can get both the hazards and directionals working by applying ground to pin C (Blue/White wire). Without the added ground, neither the hazards nor the blinkers work. It also doesn't matter if I press the hazard switch and then try the directionals. From my investigation, the blue/white wire is getting some voltage which is why the opposite tach light is dimly lit (They are connected by this one wire). This is also why the relay isn't clicking. The Blue/white wire is getting power either from the relay, or I somehow melted some wires in the harness and it is now touching one of the other signal wires. I'll have to look for this more closely tomorrow. |
pull the relay and see if the blue/white is powered?
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I just want to finish off this thread for future searching.
I puchased a new relay from Pelican and it does work different than the other new relay I got from another source. The Pelican relay was $40 more expensive, however it does work as required! The only question I have now is when the hazards are on, should the two tach lights blink as well or stay dark? Currently they stay dark when the hazard switch is pressed and each light works when the indicator is used. I'm glad this strange problem is resolved! |
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I hate to press my luck, but, by chance, do you also have the list of the standard wire color codes as well? |
THe colors are contained in DIN 47002 but I can't find it online - probably because of the propietary nature of the info.
Color code as per DIN 47002 (for twin color cables, base color is underlined) ws white br brown gn green ge yellow gr gray rs pink bl blue rt red sw black vi violet wsbr white-brown wsgn white-green wsgr white-yellow wsbl white-blue wsrt white-red wssw white-black brgn brown-green brge brown-yellow brbl brown-blue brsw brown-black gnge green-yellow gnrt green-red gnsw green-black gebl yellow-blue gert yellow-red gesw yellow-black grrt gray-red grsw gray-black rssw pink-black rsvi pink-violet blrt blue-red rtsw red-black virt violet-red |
I shd say I have a RHD euro 964 C2 and seems the flasher is one difference between US & EU cars - likely due to regs?
But any ways ... can anyone help with a pic or color map for the emergency flasher wires please? I tried to take a pic of the wiring into the plastic plug/socket but messed up and didnt get one. This is the part # 964 612 535 00 and its used with the emergency flasher. I have these wires and these numbers - now to work out which goes with which?? 7 sockets need wires (of 8): 15 49 30 58L 58R 49a 58 31 7 wires; black brown red black & white blk & yellow blk & green white w green rings this is on a 964 C2 but I think parts are same as 944 etc... Many many thanks! Matt |
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