Anybody Want To Talk Spring Plates/Rear Bushings? Elephant vs. Rebel

[Bravoaloha]

Hey everybody! Spent some time searching this topic and could not find anything definitive.

I am in the middle of a suspension refresh. I have an '86 911 that at one time was set up with alot of nice components that have since been very used and abused. With some great advice from Steve at Rennsport Systems and Clint at Rebel Racing I have almost everything squared away.

Custom Valved RSR Front Struts and Rear Sport Shocks from Steve
Turbo Tie Rod Kit w/ Adjustable Bump/Steer Kit from Clint
Semi-Solid Upper Strut Mounts from Clint

The car already has Tarrett Sway bars front (through body) and rear as well as RSR Front Bushing Set.

The car also has an older Elephant ASP Spring Plate kit with Polybronze.

The spring plate kit is nasty and I want to either replace the three rod ends and adjusters and have everything else re-zinc'd or just get a new adjustable spring plate kit from Clint.

I also need new polybronze bearings (partially because I screwed the old ones up disassembling everything and partially because they are old and look worn).

TLDNR So the question is.. spend the money to restore the ASP's (which I think will cost as much, if not more than new Rebel spring plates) and get new Polybronze or get new Rebel spring plates and rear bushings.

I am leaning towards new Rebel spring plates and the Rebel bushings as I feel the cost will be similar and no more greasing of the Polybronze. Only thing thats holding me up, and that I couldn't find from a search, was the performance benefit of the ASP kit over traditional spring plates. Car will see quite a bit of both the street and track time.

Here's a picture of what I'm working with now.

[donbecker1234]

What did you ever end up doing with this?

The sales pitch for the ASP on Elephant's site seems to make sense and I'd love to hear what you think it was like performance wise.

[Bravoaloha]

Haha I was mindlessly surfing the forum, clicked on this thread, skipped to the TLDNR and thought damn, this poor guy never got a response.. As I scrolled down I saw the picture, and thought damn that looks alot like my car!

Anyway, I ended up going with new spring plates from Clint and the RSR bushings. I think Elephant wanted over $400 to refurb the ASP's and the spring plates were about half that. I didn't notice a performance difference. The car is alot better now but everything has been refreshed.

[sc]

What did you do with the ASP kit?
Is it for sale?

[Bravoaloha]

I have it still. I will PM you.

[DerkPerk]

Have an updated pic with the RSR rear bushings? How was the install? I’m looking to update my rear to match the fronts I have.


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[Sailkane]

Next in line for the old ASP

[sc]

I passed on purchasing these....but I think he just sold them...
Used Elephant ASP Adjustable Springplates

[burgermeister]

Not that it matters much anymore ... I tracked my 911 for over a decade using just new "sport stiffness" rubber bushings (elephant) in the front as well as the rear. I have driven a car with polybronze (seems like a long time ago anyone brought air cooled cars to the track anymore ...) and similar mods (22/29, aftermarket thru body sway bars, shocks) and I did not notice much of a difference. YMMV.

[2jmotorsports]

You know this is what I wonder with most of this space-age suspension technology. Sure objectively it articulates this way or that way, but will the average butt-dyno detect it?

[Geneman]

I have a set of Elephant ASP plates. for 80's G body. PM me if interested. Frank

[burgermeister]

ASP's are not space age ... they are a semi trailing arm suspension with an outer pivot point that moves forward & rearward with suspension travel.

This affects camber and toe change curves. Outer pivot rearward tends toward pure trailing arm (no camber change with up / down travel), outer pivot forward tends toward swing axle (lots of camber change with up / down travel).

So the suspension behavior tends towards swing axle during compression, and towards semi trailing arm during rebound. You get more camber compensation and higher roll center during hard cornering, and normal behavior when going straight. So you can get by with a bit less negative camber in the setup.

IMO much of todays more complicated suspension setup is needed because we got rid of the tire sidewall, which is an excellent and very robust filter for all sorts of things.

[donbecker1234]

Originally Posted by burgermeister

...
IMO much of todays more complicated suspension setup is needed because we got rid of the tire sidewall, which is an excellent and very robust filter for all sorts of things.

I've seen comments similar to this regarding the 911/930 suspension in relation to modern low sidewall tires.

What, if any, impact should that have on suspension choices for these cars (shocks, struts, springs, bushings)?

[burgermeister]

All I have is my personal opinions. None of the above will fix the "failings" of the semi trailing arm suspension. I don't even think they are failings if you stick to 16" wheels.

I own 16's and 17's for my 88. I like the car best with the 16" wheels. It is more fun to drive, it has a noticeably nicer ride, and is much more forgiving at the limit. The 17's are faster, but less fun and less tolerant of big slip angles.

The stock rear tire size (225/16) generates a LOT of heat, and I have not found a current tire that puts up with track usage like the RE11 did.

[Kraftwerk]

Who ever go those time-darkened ASP's : They will clean up real well and be as good as new.