Shifter rebuild question

[Nathans_Dad]

Ok, got my shifter out but I still don't think it is moving correctly. First, the tab on the pawl plate for reverse has been broken off. I found it in the bottom of the shifter rod tunnel. Second, it seems a prior owner rebuilt the shifter (? short shift kit) but it won't go over far enough to engage the tab on 5th gear. The shifter is hitting the small pivot plate over there and the tab on the shifter is just hitting the tab on the housing dead on. I'm not sure what the angle on the pawl plate tab is supposed to be, maybe it has been bent out as well?

Take a look at the pics below, anything seem wonky? Do I have it assembled correctly?

Is the reverse tab being broken off something worth fixing?

Notice the extra shift pivot housing I have, it has two humps on it where the holes for the pivot pins are. The one that was installed in the shifter is a straight rectangle with the pivot holes right in the middle. Should I swap one for the other?

[Oh Haha]

I don't see any broken parts. The tab on the shift lever should engage the tab on the shift housing just slightly. Meaning when you engage 5th the tab should hold the shifter in place. Moving the lever back should engage the spring loaded tab on the housing preventing you from going into reverse.

The adjustment and placement of the shifter rod at the coupling between the rear seats can cause some problems.

When you put it back together pay attention to the way the lever works and the opposite reaction at the coupler. I think the "system" operation will make sense. to you.

[Oh Haha]

Did you have an aluminum plate underneath the shifter housing?

[Nathans_Dad]

No, no plate.

I think I might have a Frankenshifter here.

It looks like someone put in a short shift kit but then either swapped it back out or left certain parts in there. The shifter pivot housing is stock, I only have one guide pin (? stock) and I am not sure if the pawl plate is stock or short shift. It would make sense to me if the pivot housing is wrong then the shifter will sit too low, thus not being able to engage the tab on the pawl plate.

[Oh Haha]

I see the broken part now. The reverse lockout tab on the the shifter housing is gone. You can live without it.

The shift blocks that I have do not have the "humps". You could try flipping it and using the higher mounting point. You'll need to check the engagement of the ball cup on the bottom. If it sits in the shift rod holder then you should be ok and that may give you the height for the 5th gear tab to be engaged properly.

[Nathans_Dad]

Ok I think I sorta made some progress. I put the other pivot box in there (the one with the humps) and the short shifter lever now engages the tab just fine. It is pretty stiff to shift though! I put the shorter set of springs in there since the guide plate is sitting higher in the shifter. Anyhow, guess I will install it and see how it feels...

[Oh Haha]

You can adjust the stiffness of the side to side motion by loosening the set screw and nut that holds the shift block.

I have a frankenshifter as well although I assembled mine so I did lots of trial/error fits to get it right for me.

Be sure the grease the ball cup socket bushing before buttoning everything up.

[Nathans_Dad]

Got the shifter back together and in the car. I'm not sure if the springs are too strong or not, the shifter springs over to the 1st/2nd side, then you push over into 3rd and 4th and then push further over into 5th and reverse.

Is it supposed to be sprung over against the left side at default? I thought it was supposed to spring into the middle.

Plan to adjust the linkage tomorrow and see where I end up after that.

If anyone needs their shifter rebuilt, send it over, I can put these things together in my sleep now, HA!

[Flat Six]

Rick, you likely have the factory short shifter installed. Check here:

Seine Systems > An Overview of 915 Shift Housings

Sherwood's site (he also produces the Seine Systems Gate Shifter Kit offered by our host) provides some measurements to verify whether your shift lever is indeed the Factory Short Shift lever. The fork in your photo (rectangular box) is arched as the FSS would be; a 'regular' (non-FSS) for an '84 would be a one-piece fork, totally rectangular.

The FSS works in the regular housing by: a) moving the pivot point upward (toward the knob); that's why the FSS yoke is arched -- to move the pivot point higher; and b) by providing a shift lever that's slightly longer between the pivot point and the ball end. That way the FSS 'reaches down' as far as a non-FSS, but because of the revised fulcrum/pivot point translates to shorter (though not necessarily faster or easier) shifting.

You want to be especially careful reassembling your shifter. Since you have two forks (one FSS, one not), you need to make sure you use the proper fork for the lever you have. If you use the FSS fork (higher pivot point) with a 'regular' '84 shift lever, the overall length will be too short and the shift lever ball end may not seat fully into the bushing and holder. If you use the 'regular' fork with an FSS shift lever the lever ball end will sit too low, and as you reassemble the shifter it'll be too long overall. You very well could be in a situation where the shifter rod bracket (you know, the one with the PITA hex bolt) can't sit flush with the bottom of the shifter housing and -- in an attempt to tighten those two hex bolts -- all kinds of bad things can happen, including binding the shift linkage or stripping the female threads in the shift rod bracket. My suggestion is that you take the shifter off again, measure everything just to make sure, and blueprint the shifter. Poke around the Seine Systems site; you'll find lots of useful info there including how to 'blueprint' your shifter.

And, as Wayne pointed out, the shift lever should move right of the tab when shifting into 5th, so the tabs (one on the plate, one on the shift lever) hold tension against the shifter springs -- not the trans itself (you want to avoid the side load). Proper adjustment of the coupler under the access panel between and behind the front seats is a must, and will likely take a few tries and a little finessing to get just right. But when you do, it makes a world of difference between a PITA experience and fine-shifting 915.

Good luck,

Dale

[dicklague]

Make sure all the plastic bushings are not worn as well. One more tip, the tubular part of the shaft is brazed to the ball and pivot part. I have had this braze let got on my FSS and had to MIG weld it. If you have it apart again I would weld it properly. I have heard lots of the brazed ones come loose and then the shifter spins around

[911pcars]

Dale analyzes and summarizes quite well. Thanks.

Dick,
The two-piece shift lever is held together with epoxy glue as applied at the factory - I'm guessing for ease of assembly while maintaining alignment between the tabs on the lever and carrier plate. Yes. Tack-weld so they don't part company as you've done.

"Is it supposed to be sprung over against the left side at default? I thought it was supposed to spring into the middle."

The latter. This sounds like the shift coupler needs some adjustment. Did you lose the working setting? In neutral the shift housing springs force the shift lever away from 5th/Rev. and toward the 3rd/4th shift plane (and on occasion, sometimes toward 1st/2nd).

The factory doesn't provide spring tension to identify 1st/2nd hence our Gate Shift kit add-on kit.

Sherwood
Seine Systems

[Nathans_Dad]

Just to close the loop here, I solved the problem.

It was as I expected, the shifter guide fork was for a stock shifter, not a short shifter. When you put the short shift pivot bracket in which raises the pivot point, this caused the stock guide fork to ride too high, thus compressing the springs too much, thus putting a load on the pivot pin and forcing the shifter over to the left at baseline. Whew!!

Anyhow, long story short, my local Porsche shop (I happen to live down the street from Zim's Autotechnik) had a short shift fork in stock so I took my shifter over and we compared parts. Sure enough, they are different. Bought the correct short shift guide fork for $10 and put it in and the shifter works fine. Reinstalled it and adjusted the linkage and I have all gears available. 3rd is still a bit vague to find but it was my first time adjusting the linkage so I might give that a go again later on. For now, the car is buttoned up and done!

I think a Seine gate shifter might be in my future, maybe after Christmas...

[Oh Haha]

Glad to hear you got it worked out. You'll end up fiddlin' with the coupler adjustment several times but it will be worth it.

[Flat Six]

Originally Posted by Nathans_Dad

I think a Seine gate shifter might be in my future, maybe after Christmas...

Best $150 I've spent . . .

[AZAirCooled]

Check your coupler bushings too. One of mine was missing with the pieces loose in the boot.

[dicklague]

Originally Posted by 911pcars

Dale analyzes and summarizes quite well. Thanks.

Dick,
The two-piece shift lever is held together with epoxy glue as applied at the factory - I'm guessing for ease of assembly while maintaining alignment between the tabs on the lever and carrier plate. Yes. Tack-weld so they don't part company as you've done.


Sherwood
Seine Systems

Sherwood,

I thought they were brazed.....well Dave told me that. Epoxy!!! yikes!! on installation, I spent a couple days fiddling with the FSS and got it right.........couple days later the epoxy let go!!!

I was so pissed, I pulled the shifter out and tack welded it in the welding bench vise without taking it apart!!! I did not have the heart for a 4 disassembly of the shifter.

Dick