Help me w/ this formula car...pics

[carnut169]

I am exploring the option of buying this vehicle. It will be cheap, but I am quite sure expensive to run- do any of you have any experience w/ this? Is this a Formula Ford or Continental? What is a fair price considering I may need to rebuild the engine, replace the tires, etc? Any thoughts/ ideas/ suggestions would be great.

[carnut169]

Engine...

[carnut169]

Front.....

[emcon5]

I can't answer your questions, but it sure looks like fun. Can't the seller provide that information?

Are you planning on racing it, or just screwing around with autocross and track days?

[motion]

Sean,

Its a Formula Continental. Probably a Van Dieman. Powered by a 2 litre Ford engine. Depending on age & condition, they are worth $12k-$30k race ready with a fresh engine. This one looks seriously neglected and so isn't worth much. Just for your reference, a rebuild on these motors, which must happen every 12 hours or so, costs in the neighborhood of $3,000. Parts are hard to come by and expensive. If you can get it for 4 or 5k it might be worth it. Otherwise its going to be a serious money pit.

-Richard Barnett
ex Formula Vee, Formula Ford, Formula Atlantic driver

[carnut169]

Thanks. Richard- do you mean that the parts will cost 3k, or it would cost 3k to have it done? I would want to do the work myself- that would be part of the fun.
You are also right on the money- we are talking about $3500. I would need to spend some time learning about the mechanicals of the car, buying the tools I would need, and would plan on going over the car in everyway. Probably would not get it on the track until 2003. Then sign up for a school- screw around like you said, then get involved with SCCA racing. I'm not rich- but for $3500 it seems like a fantastic toy.

[jluetjen]

Sean;
I agree with Richard, it looks like a mid-90's Van Diemen F2000. Maybe a little past its prime, but "all there" For comparison, here is what the most recent Sportscar (The SCCA Mag) has listed for sale of this vintage:

'97 with Pi System, Penske triples, Ivey Motor, 3 sets of OZ wheels, 2 each spare wings and defusers, etc. $29K

'98, Elite motor, Pi2, 2x noses, Penskes, 2 sets of OZ's , $39.5K,

2000 updated to 2001 spec's. Quicksilver motor, similar spares to the above. $39.5K

'95 with Quicksilver motor, Penske triples, $21.5K
They have a couple of others listed, but with no prices.

Are you sure that there isn't a zero missing in the price. I would guess that that the Quicksilver Motor in used condition and the magnesium wheels alone are worth almost $3500. It seems that the cars usually came with Pi2 dashes which are also worth at least $1200 as well as Penske shocks ($500 each). In all honesty, you'd be hard pressed to find a '78 Van Diemen FF1600 for $7500, so a 9X F2000 for $3500 is a deal

Either the seller is clueless or you have stumbed on a true "Barn find"

If the price is really $3500, what is the seller looking for the car in the back???

By the way, I'd call your local SCCA region and see if they have a Formula Car contact. S/He may be familiar with the car and could give you some background. They can also give you some input on the process of starting racing. I'd strongly recommend that the best place to start is a Professional 3-Day school; such as Bonderont or Skip Barber. If I had done that I would not have bounced my FF off a guardrail at Watkins Glen. Repairing the car cost more then taking the school and I ended up selling the car to pay off the bills. These cars do demand respect . But once you have that them figured out, other cars (even Porsches) are just barges.

Good Luck!

[carnut169]

I have a "knack" for finding super deals- $5200 for my 98 F250, $6000 for my first 911 (a 86 coupe), I have made an offer (yesterday) on a 93 rx7 ($4000- needs an engine), $1500 for a 87 Chev dually + a 24' enclosed trailer (one of the best deals ever), etc, etc, etc. I guess that is one of the perks of my job!
The $3500 is not a sure thing... people need to talk, get approval, you know the deal. I have found a fantastic Formula site (like this one) posted the photos and they are all excited about the car- "I'll buy it if you don't" and I have not even reported the price. Concensious is that it will take around $5,000 to prep it if there is nothing major wrong w/ the car. Could cost $10,000. But, they also seem to agree that for under $10,000 the car is a deal. Thats my language.
On another note, the only car I did NOT get a deal on is my 911- but I know the history, POs, and the way it was cared for. I had my eye on the car for 10 years before I bought it, and knew that if the owner ever wanted to sell it I would do everything I could to buy it- and that is just what I did- sold my Trooper, Wrangler, and the ski boat to buy her.

[motion]

Sean - Plan on spending $10,000 to get it race ready. If its a 88-90 vintage, I'd stay away from it. Why have $13k into a questionable car when you can buy one turnkey and ready to go for that price?

If it's a 92 or newer, it sounds like a good deal. Make *really sure* it has a log book. Otherwise you're going to have a hard time getting it to pass tech. You'll have to produce a homalganization (spelling) certificate which is a royal pain.

Btw - you're Cab is beautiful. love the color.

[carnut169]

Thanks again- I now know it is a 96 Van Diemen, and has several "updates"- oz wheels, hi-tech exhaust
aero push-rods (rear), drilled rotors, Elite engine, and a few more. Log book may be unavailable, no spare parts. They are discussing price and I should know somthing soon.

[motion]

If that's the case then 7-8k would still be a good price.

[ToyCollector]

Holy Schmoly Sean!!

Talk about jumping into the racing scene BIG. Keep us posted.

Logbook is a must have as mentioned above!! Training is a must as well and I would check with SCCA if they would let you jump in at that level even with training!! Having recently migrated to race track driving, it is different and unforgiving, and the G-Loads are unbelieveable with true race tires and a car that is set-up. Thresholds would be very high with that thing. Hope you get it--funny how those garages attract extra vehicles

[carnut169]

Projects, projects, projects. I am not even finished w/ the garage (but now just waiting for the warmer weather to do painting/ mudding) and I purchased a project car- 93 RX7 twin turbo- to sell and hopefully make a little $$ on it. I have ordered a new engine, and might be putting it in the Sat.- when it is sold I will be buying the Formula car (knock on wood). There is a BBS for Formula Contential owners- nowhere near as active as this BBS, but still quite good. There are guys there who are Formula car freaks and seem to know just about everything there is to know- so I have been reading. When it happens it will be an absolute blast to drive. They say that they are the fastest cars on the track on open track days... unless a Formula Atlantic car shows up. "Regular" car just do not have a chance.
They will absolutely let you race- you need the log book, all safety equiptment, and I will do some schooling. There are several levels of Formula cars and anyone can buy a used (race ready) FC w/ spares and a trailer for around $25,000. This car needs work, has no spares, and might not have a log book- hence the discount.
How is your garage comming?

[Leland Pate]

Wow, a car auction guy!
Sean,...you gotta promise me... if you ever find another late model Carrera for $6K YOU LET ME KNOW!

Thats gotta be like a dream job...

Way cool looking open wheeler... bet it'll be a blast. Good luck,

[carnut169]

Wait a min.... the SCWPD founder wants a Carrera?? I'll keep my eyes open Leland.

[jluetjen]

Regarding the Missing log book -- I would call Sven Pruett (SCCA - Club Racing Technical Manager). He can be reached at the SCCA Headquarters in CO at 303-694-7222. He can be very helpful in working through that issue if it fact it exists.

[Leland Pate]

Uh...uh... did I say "Ca-rre-ra"???

Well...ahem...the SCWDP could use a nice late model Carrera for... ahem..."testing"...ahem.
Preferably a Metallic silver coupe with Black/Saddle leather... mmmmmmmmmm...