Early 911: Headers AND heat?

[boyo]

Here's a thought - I'd sure like to upgrade to headers on my '72 911T, but absolutely have to have heat. What are the options?


My first though was that there's got to be a way to extract heat from the muffler instead of using heat exchangers. What I need is a 3-in, 2-out muffler where 1 of the passages doesn't mix with the other - as I'm not willing to learn how to breathe exhaust gasses just to have heat.

Though how that is different from my current heat exchangers I'm not entirely sure...


On weekends at the track, you could unbolt the muffler + heater tubes and bolt on something less restrictive (and lighter). I don't care to snap exhaust studs on a monthly basis, but a muffler swap is pretty quick and easy.


I'm thinking someone must've done this before. If they haven't, then the patent is mine.

That stock muffler is HUGE compared to (for example) Austin-Healey mufflers, you could easily fit two of them inside one stock Porsche muffler with enough tubing and other junk to create an air passage around them for heating purposes.


I will be getting a welder soon...maybe take that old stock muffler I have spare and see what I can make of it...


Anybody?

-Boyo

[Kahuna]

SSIs are headers with heat.

[boyo]

Will they fit on a pre-74 MFI 911? Pelican parts page sez no.

The 1973 and earlier page is a little fuzzy - while the index says "SSI", the description doesn't. Makes me question it, I will ask Wayne to clarify that page.

The SSIs are also not advertised as a performance increase, where headers are. Again, according to Pelican.

So are they really headers, and will they really fit my car as a direct bolt-in? No, according to the info I have. Educate me.


Other parts sites are equally confusing. I ordered what I thought would be a pair of bare metal exhangers made by Dansk and they came coated in about 5 lbs of paint covering 10lbs of welds. Complete crud.

-Boyo

[Rot 911]

I'm not sure what Pelican Parts is carrying, but SSI made their money off of heat exchangers for pre 74 911's! I bought a set for my 72 2.4 911E with MFI last year that were a work of art and fit perfectly! They are even better than OEM pre '74 exchangers in that SSI's are true tuned headers. You will find nothing better for your 72 than SSI's! I would first call Pelican to see if they carry pre '74 SSI's, if not I got mine from http://www.europroducts.net/main/mainporsche.htm for around $800.00

[campbellcj]

You can get SSI's for MFI (I know cuz I have them).

The only reason IMHO to run regular headers on a street-driven car is to save some weight & a few bucks. There will be virtually zero power increase; plus, you'd have to finagle something for the MFI pump heat hookup.

[boyo]

Here's my problem: you go to EUROPRODUCTS and search for SSIs and you get a $829 price tag attached to a description ("SSI Heat Exchangers 911 LR") and no picture.

Maybe I'm funny, but that don't do it for me. What year are these for? CIS, MFI, or carb? Direct bolt in? etc, etc, etc.


So my questions still stand...

-Boyo

[emcon5]

Originally posted by boyo
Will they fit on a pre-74 MFI 911? Pelican parts page sez no.

Where does it say that?

A quick look at the Exhaust section of the Pelican catalog for early 911 shows:

Stainless Steel Heat Exchanger, with MFI, Left, 911 (1969-73)

Stainless Steel Heat Exchanger, Right, 911 (1965-73)

Tom

[boyo]

Precisely - no mention of "SSI".

So are these the real deal, or a stainless steel version of the OEM heat exchangers?

-Boyo (still confused)

[Rot 911]

Originally posted by boyo
Here's my problem: you go to EUROPRODUCTS and search for SSIs and you get a $829 price tag attached to a description ("SSI Heat Exchangers 911 LR") and no picture.

Maybe I'm funny, but that don't do it for me. What year are these for? CIS, MFI, or carb? Direct bolt in? etc, etc, etc.


So my questions still stand...

-Boyo

Sorry, I thought with what we have told you and giving you the website that you would be capable of obtaining the rest of the information for yourself. Have you even bothered to call Pelican or Europroducts? Even the most cursory search on this board would have given you these threads: http://www.pelicanparts.com/cgi-bin/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=32683&highlight=SSI+and+MFI http://www.pelicanparts.com/cgi-bin/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6725&highlight=SSI+and+MFI Perhaps a little more leg work on your part might be in order. I don't mind holding my wife's hand, but I'm not going to hold yours.

[Neunelf]

Boyo- I can't see why you would want to put SSI's on your '72T unless your current heat exchangers are rusted out. SSI is merely a stainless steel version of the exhaust system of the '74 and before (including your '72), which are nothing more or less than headers with heat. SSI based their design on the OEM system. Later 911's didn't get the same OEM treatment, so this gives SSI a market, as well as being a direct replacement for rusted out pre-74 heat exchangers. Your going to SSI's would add nothing but some shiny metal that lasts longer, unless your exchangers were in rough shape.

As for changing out your muffler, the MFI system has been shown (search previous posts on mufflers) to need some back pressure, which the OEM muffler provides correctly. If the muffler is TOO free flow, the MFI doesn't work as well. You might do a quick search, or someone here might be able to tell you if there are some other good options for an MFI system. If you have carbs, then all bets are off, as I don't know what works best for that setup. There are plenty of people here that can help you there, though. Good luck, I hope this helps, Roy

[Leland Pate]

OK PEOPLE ...
What is going on here???
Is it just me or is the mood around here been getting a little "tense" lately????
What??? Is it because everybodys cars are up on blocks for the winter???
Is this some sort of side effect of "Porsche withdrawl"???
Yes, he could have done a bit more searching before posting.... but I don't think it demanded ridicule.

Why does it seem that people are being so short with each other. If something he says, torques you....don't answer...


If you can't say anything nice....


...come on....group hug....

[boyo]

Yes, I have read those posts and done significant searching on this website before posting. They contain conflicting information, and leave the performance question answered with guesses. There was even a thread a while back about SSI imitations. Hence the confusion.

For example, some folks report having to modify the SSI to work with MFI due to the missing MFI regulator outlet. Others say there is a version which works as-is, designed just for MFI. The post above mentions back pressure, which was something I didn't know about, so I'll do some more searching on that topic.


You've mistaken my kvetching about 6 word descriptions for $800 parts as laziness. You call most of these places, and the guy answering the phone has no idea what a "heat exchanger" is.

I have contacted PP, but figured someone here would have the answer already and would be willing to say something like, "Yep, the PP SSI is the one you want", or "nope, it isn't".


Simple as that. Flame off, OK?

-Boyo

[widebody911]

I had SSI's on my MFI'd '72 T - they worked great. You must get the MFI version with the heat takeoff for the MFI pump, otherwise the car won't run right.

[emcon5]

Call:

Stainless Systems Inc
20 Pamaron Way
Novato, CA 94949
(415) 883-200

[katigbr]

Just thought I'd wade in also...

Pelican does sell SSI headers. I purchased a pair for my 72T with a 2.7-MFI late last year (before I saw the light and went 3.6). They are definitely SSI (came in an SSI box and everything). Make sure you speak with someone when you order (as opposed to web ordering) as their website was not correctly referencing the SSI part no. for MFI Left side Heat exchanger when I ordered. I received the wrong Left side HE (thick flange no MFI heat). Super service on the return and exchange.

Rick

[Rot 911]

Originally posted by boyo
Yes, I have read those posts and done significant searching on this website before posting. They contain conflicting information, and leave the performance question answered with guesses. There was even a thread a while back about SSI imitations. Hence the confusion.

For example, some folks report having to modify the SSI to work with MFI due to the missing MFI regulator outlet. Others say there is a version which works as-is, designed just for MFI. The post above mentions back pressure, which was something I didn't know about, so I'll do some more searching on that topic.


You've mistaken my kvetching about 6 word descriptions for $800 parts as laziness. You call most of these places, and the guy answering the phone has no idea what a "heat exchanger" is.

Simple as that. Flame off, OK?

-Boyo

Boyo, when I flame, you'll know it. The SSI's are a tuned header system that will give you a slight HP gain over the stock OEM heat exchangers. If yours are not rusted out I would say stick with what you have. If they are rusted out, the SSI's are perfectly designed to fit the 2.4 with NO modifications. They come with the 1" outlet for the warm up regulator. However they do not have the 2" outlet for the warm air housing to the air filter which is a pollution control device that most people toss because it is a useless piece of crap. You will also find that the phone staff at both Pelican Parts and EuroProducts to be quite helpful and informative. I've attached a pic of my 2.4 E engine with the SSI's installed. I couldn't find a driver's side pic.

[boyo]

Cool, that's a sweet engine pic!

Yup, my heat exchangers are not only rusted, it appears they have been dragged on the ground for many miles. The bottom of the flange where they meet the exhaust are ground down to the point where only the thickness of the pipe remains. I'm thinking a tow job similar to the VW bug in "Any Which Way but Loose".

Thanks all for the info, especially the MFI peculiarities with the SSIs.

-Boyo

[jkeyzer]

Kurt -

Nice looking engine!!

I always wondered why picture posts are often broken for me, but I just fired up IE and it looks like it's Netscape's fault!