Selling a car, am I being unreasonable?

[cloud89]

I am selling a car, and have asked for and received a cashiers check for the agreed upon amount that I deposited in the bank.

The bank placed a hold on the check for about 48 hours.

In agreed upon and signed terms by the buyer, I had specified that I would not release the car until the check "clears".

The buyer feels that is unreasonable and thinks I should release the car but hold the title until check clears.

I explained that I am just being cautious and that when the check clears as we agreed, I will release the car and send the title.

Am I being unreasonable or overly cautious? I don't want to burn any bridges as I may want to do business with them in the future.

thanks.

[porschenut]

Sounds like you're in the right because the terms were spelled out beforehand. "Cleared" means cleared. Why would they consider 48 hours unreasonable? What's the big hurry for them? Demanding the car before the money clears would make me even MORE suspicious.

[twistoffat]

Cheques are like basketballs....they can both bounce. No you are not unreasonable. Next time ask for a bank transfer. That way the money hits your account and all know where they stand.

[ShakinJoe]

I just sold my VW TDI and we opted for an electronic money transfer to avoid this delay as the customer was flying in.

You are doing the right thing here if you do know know the buyer.

Just recently a guy walked into Bentley dealership in Atlanta and wanted to buy two bentleys with an "official" check from the Federal Reserve. The checks had gold leaf seals and everything.

The salesman recently watched a show on A&E or Discovery about the Federal Reserve and knew that the Federal Reserve ONLY operates in cash......NEVER checks.

Wait for the cash to clear your bank, if the buyer balks....find a new buyer. This economy has bred thieves, not that your buyer is a thief, but your gut will tell you what to do.

[cgarr]

I thought a "cashiers check" was like cash? You cant get one unless you put up the cash? no?

[jimbauman]

Fraudulent cashier's checks are quite common in automotive transactions. And if they are bad, it usually takes the banks much longer than 48 hours to discover the fact. And even IF the bank "cleared" the check and released the funds to you, they can and WILL come back to you for the money, days or even WEEKS later if you've tendered a bad cashier's check. Beware. Know the buyer. Or at least, as much as you can find out.

JB

[cloud89]

thanks for all the quick replies!
I opted for a certified or cashier’s check (not sure if they are one in the same) because my bank seemed to indicate that a wire transfer would automatically pay the balance on the loan and trigger them sending the title to the buyer as long as the wire amount covered the remaining balance on the car, regardless if the total amount wired was possibly less than the agreed upon sale price.

This didn't seem right to me, and the only way I could get a warm fuzzy feeling about the whole thing was to be sure the entire amount was deposited, cleared and then I would control paying off the balance, release the car and deal with the title.

Not only do I need a another Porsche, I think I may need another bank too, although I probably misunderstood the process.

Anyway, thanks again.

[cloud89]

Oh brother, now what?

[nesslar]

Your bank should be willing to call the other bank and verify the authenticity of the thing. I have had the Manager at one of my banks do that (his suggestion) and all was well. I would heartily suggest you have them do so, and see if they will sign for thier efforts/legitimacy of the check. Oh, and you right to stick to your "contract" of course!

[McLovin]

Nothing should leave you - car, title, nothing, until all funds are in your account and irrevocably cleared.

[PropellerHead]

I don't know if the buyer is trustworthy in this case. They might be.
However, you should be very, very cautious. It may take 2 full weeks before the $ deposited via check actually clears and is legit in your account. The bank will give you a 'good' sign within a couple of days and actually deposit the $ but that can still backfire and be removed! Apparently all they do is check that funds are available from that account and then deposit in good faith that amount into your account. They have not at that point yet received the funds from the other bank. You can usually do that yourself by calling the bank which issued the cashier's check.

I've been through this once and nearly got scammed from the deal. A 'buyer' sent me a certified check as a deposit. It looked every bit legit and was for the amount we discussed for a deposit. I called the bank which issued the check and after asking some important questions they pulled the account (which had funds to cover the transaction) info and learned that that account did not allow checks to be written from it, even cashier's checks. Turns out the account info had been compromised and the check wasn't good.

The 'buyer' was hoping to strike the deal between that 48hr check and the 2 weeks it took to actually complete the bank-to-bank transaction and have my car on the way to him. Then, when the check was deemed fraudulant, the bank would have pulled the funds back out of my account (which they would have deposited in good faith 48 hrs after they held the check) and to add insult, the bank would have charged me a bounce fee!

When I sold that car (to a different individual), we did so via wire transfer. I had title in-hand, so as soon as the money was deposited (as a wire, it was deposited and *mine* immediately) I FedEx'd the title, bill of sale and all documents to prove ownership to him next day including a spare key. THen we worked out shipping arrangements over the next week or so. It went smooth.

Seller beware!

[Busta Rib]

Originally Posted by nesslar

Your bank should be willing to call the other bank and verify the authenticity of the thing. I have had the Manager at one of my banks do that (his suggestion) and all was well. I would heartily suggest you have them do so, and see if they will sign for thier efforts/legitimacy of the check. Oh, and you right to stick to your "contract" of course!

+1. I did this with my last transaction and all was good. Best option, of course, is an electronic transfer, but even then, the receiving bank might require a hold for a few hours. Every bank has different policies.

[cloud89]

maybe if the bank had not been so squirrely and nonchalant about the wire, I wouldn't have requested the check. Damn banks. How can one bank send a check to another, that bank "verifies" the thing but it can still be bad?

Maybe once the check "clears" I will transfer my accounts to a new bank and let them try to squeeze blood out of an trying to be honest and do the right thing rock!

[brads911sc]

+1

Sounds like you want it both ways... You want to hold the car, wait for the funds to clear, and decide when to pay off the lein, and decide when to mail a clear title... meanwhile if the buyer is legit he sits with nothing for weeks. Would you hand a stranger 10-15k and sit and wait a week or two or three for a title? I wouldnt. I wouldnt buy a car from any individual unless the title was free and clear. I will exchange my cash for a title. I dont mind waiting a few weeks for the actual car... What guarantees has he gotten from the deal? you still have the title and car and his money. Im just sayin...

Originally Posted by georgeinhere

Buying and selling a car with a note is always a hassle. Why would the buyer trust you to pay off the car? I would have never agreed to buy the car under those circumstances. Of course, with a.printer anyone can create a check...
I think that you're being reasonable to wait until the funds clear and unreasonable to not have the initial funds go directly to the lien holder.

[gregwils]

You can request certified funds which is a guarantee by the issuing bank that the funds are available. The bank will set aside or put a hold on the funds for the requestor in the amount of the check. I agree that every bank has different policies, and the best bet is to talk to your bank in advance.

[cloud89]

was only supposed to be 48 hours, I don't intended to hold the car for weeks!!!
I told him I would release the car when the check clears and that what i will do. I trust the person enough, was just trying to do it right.

[cloud89]

did talk with the bank first, they turned me off of the wire transfer thing.

[brads911sc]

Fair enough. Just giving the buyers side as well.

Originally Posted by cloud89

was only supposed to be 48 hours, I don't intended to hold the car for weeks!!!
I told him I would release the car when the check clears and that what i will do. I trust the person enough, was just trying to do it right.

[schumicat]

you have to plan ahead a little. the last car I bought had a lien on it. I gave a certified check to seller at his bank, his bank called mine to confirm the check was legit, his bank marked the lien as paid on the title, seller signed over title to me (my wife, who drove me to his bank, notarized it but banks will have notary on hand too), and gave the seller the difference between price and his note balance. took about 10 minutes and I drove away in the car with title, and seller walked away with his note marked paid in full and the balance of the cash. As another guy said, I wouldn't do a deal where seller held title, car, and purchase price for days or weeks until he decided he was happy.

[Quicksilver]

The problem with a cashier's check/certified check/money order (or ANY financial instrument) is they can all bounce... EVEN AFTER THE HOLD PERIOD IS OVER!
If it is drawn on a US bank then it should be good in 2 days because Check 21 (the Fed's electronic processing) completes the transaction in less then 48 hours.

IF it is drawn on a foreign bank it can come back after weeks (generally up to 6 weeks) and even if the "funds have cleared" they will still take the money out of your account. The bank never gets left holding the bag...
Bogus cashier's checks from foreign banks are a common part of large fraud scams. They rely on the fact that your bank will "clear" it in 14 days max so the seller will release the purchased items when it takes much longer for a bad check to be returned to the bank.

End result: 48 hours on a US bank is great. 48 hours on a foreign bank is a great way to donate your car to Nigeria.