First time P-car buyer: which 911?

[djm68]

Hello,

My first post here on Pelican -- I've been lurking and absorbing all the excellent information posted by the forum members. Good stuff.

This is my situation: my wife and I are soon to sell a business. From the proceeds of the sale I will wind-up with $100k for a "car toy" budget. I think lots of us dream of something like this, but now as this becomes a reality, I have no idea of what 911 to buy. So, I turn to the more seasoned forum members for advice, thoughts.

This car will have two purposes: primarily, to race in the Pac NW hillclimb series, and secondly to have at least one go at the Targa Newfoundland. There will certainly be some DE and autox at sometime. Cost of prepping and attending Targa will come out of the play budget, as will cost of a cheap/basic tow vehicle. Class regs require the car to be street legal.

The logic side of my brain (I am an engineer) says go with something a bit more modern, like a 993, as the newer rear suspension will be more forgiving to a 911 newbie; however, my soul says go for something vintage and cool like an RS or RSR clone -- I think some of the best looking P-cars, ever. I am also a big fan on the 3.2 Carrera. Then of course there is the RS America, which is withing my budget...too many choices!

As I intend to hillclimb the car, there is something to be said for stability and a forgiving chassis. I've only driven very few 911s and never really to limit -- are the throttle lift over steer problems really that severe and if so, is it possible to mitigate this tendency with newer suspension tech?

Is one generation of 911 significantly more expensive to maintain? I've noticed that older 911 suspension components are wildly expensive when compare to more contemporary models. I understand a track car will require more maintenance, but any gotcha for a particular era?

Also, as I intend to hillclimb, power to weight ratio is king -- clearly the very old cars are much lighter, but then have smaller motors. Generally, class rules restrict complete motor swaps, otherwise a 3.2 swap into an old shell would be the hot ticket.

Perhaps this is useful as well: I am pretty adept at wrenching on old cars -- I've restored several old Mustang's and have halfway decent welding skills. Certainly not afraid to work on my own car.

As far as previous motorsport experience: I've raced karts as a kid, muscle cars in high school, then took years off cars due to university. Autoxed and DE with vintage Mustang for a few years after University. Family and a career with lots of travel kept me from car fun for many years until 2006 when I started back at autox, DE, then hillclimbs in a 2006 VW GTI. I am a pretty decent driver, setting records for all hills in my class (G-stock). The GTI was my first FWD -- all previous fun cars were RWD (Mustangs, Falcon, 240z, bmw 2002).

Sorry for the somewhat rambling posting, but this is a huge decision for me and I am somewhat overwhelmed with all the possible options.

Thanks,

DJM

[R K T]

Welcome to Pelican....(from a relatively newb myself)

You'll get alot of different opinions to your questions!
How about a back-dated 911. I've got an 87 3.2 that looks like a 73. Weighs about 2500lbs. Fast, responsive, comfortable and reliable. Kinda best of both worlds.
On the other side.....with a 100K, I'd be lookin at a 2008 GT3.

[djm68]

Originally Posted by R K T

Welcome to Pelican....(from a relatively newb myself)

You'll get alot of different opinions to your questions!
How about a back-dated 911. I've got an 87 3.2 that looks like a 73. Weighs about 2500lbs. Fast, responsive, comfortable and reliable. Kinda best of both worlds.
On the other side.....with a 100K, I'd be lookin at a 2008 GT3.

I've thought about the GT3 route as well as well as a new Cayman S. The trouble I see with a GT3 is the high price to start -- leaves too little cash left over for car prep (cage other safety), extra wheels/tires, not to mention the cost of entering Targa NF which is something like 5k. I'd like to leave some cash left over to tune and repair.

Any links to pics of your 87?

Cheers,
DJM

[Jim Richards]

Here ya go...you'll even have a few bucks left over for prep and entry fee.

GT3 Ceramic Brakes Navigation Never Raced 3,000 Miles

[R K T]

It's always nice to have "cash left over"!
I bought the 87 from a fellow Pelican last year. Everything was done except the interior, and I finished that just recently....

[Packy]

I don't know what your smog rules are but go I would go with a pre-smog ('75 here in Cali) and put a 3.6 liter in it. Do a RSR widebody conversion.

Chassis - $1,000
New paint job done right - $12,000
Suspension - $3,000
3.6L motor, rebuilt, plus goodies - $30,000
G50 tranny - $5,000
Wheels - $3,500
blah blah blah add 25%

$67,000 dollar car with 400+ hp in a 2000 lb car with no smog sounds pretty sweet to me.

[Winter]

Listen to your soul. . .



----

Tom '75 targa

[logan2z]

Originally Posted by R K T

It's always nice to have "cash left over"!
I bought the 87 from a fellow Pelican last year. Everything was done except the interior, and I finished that just recently....

drool

[dicklague]

GREAT LOOKING 911. good work.

[barndoor]

I like your Dash.Can you tell us how you did it or where you got it ?

[Jim Richards]

Originally Posted by djm68

This car will have two purposes: primarily, to race in the Pac NW hillclimb series, and secondly to have at least one go at the Targa Newfoundland. There will certainly be some DE and autox at sometime. Cost of prepping and attending Targa will come out of the play budget, as will cost of a cheap/basic tow vehicle. Class regs require the car to be street legal.

What else do you need to consider? Are there stock or prepared classes? What are the rules placing you in one class or another? Which classes are the most / least competitive?

[R K T]

Originally Posted by barndoor

I like your Dash.Can you tell us how you did it or where you got it ?

Thanks! The interior was blue/black and I wanted all black. I also wanted Alcantara. So I bought a dashcap and covered it with Alcantara. Snapped (glued) right in with a perfect fit.

[barndoor]

nice !
more dash pics please !

[Dueller]

Considering the limited info on car classification, it appears cloning say an SC or Carrera into a backdated long hood appears out of the question. I think you ought to go the other end of the spectrum. Get a 90-93 964 and build a clone of an RSA or Carrera Cup car. 3.6 power, tractable handling, reasonable cost of finding a decent car to build on yet not so rare or priceless as a genuine 911S, fairly modern yet still recognizable as an iconic 911, ususpension/engine upgrades relatively inexpensive.

[R K T]

I'll take some better pics and post'em tomorrow.....right now we are having one hell of a lightning/thunder storm and I'm gettin' off the 'puter!!!!!!

[Dueller]

Originally Posted by Dueller

Considering the limited info on car classification, it appears cloning say an SC or Carrera into a backdated long hood appears out of the question. I think you ought to go the other end of the spectrum. Get a 90-93 964 and build a clone of an RSA or Carrera Cup car. 3.6 power, tractable handling, reasonable cost of finding a decent car to build on yet not so rare or priceless as a genuine 911S, fairly modern yet still recognizable as an iconic 911, suspension/engine upgrades relatively inexpensive.

[Jim Richards]

1992 Carrera Cup USA Edition #92012

[djm68]

Originally Posted by Jim Richards

What else do you need to consider? Are there stock or prepared classes? What are the rules placing you in one class or another? Which classes are the most / least competitive?

The hill climb series rules are actually very liberal; however, Targa NF rules are very complex, far more so than SCCA rules. It will be easy to meet the hill climb rules, but TNF will be much stickier.

There are categories for all levels of preparation -- with a catch all "open class" for just about any modification.

I am going for "Targa Level 3" preparation; this is the highest level of prep before going to the full on open class.

Most of the engine is "free" save for the block which must match the Orig Equipment Specification of the car you've registered as; displacement can be increased up to 20%. So, if you are running an RS clone, you can not use a 3.6, but a 2.7 or maybe a 3.0 with twin plugs heads would be ok. Some updating and backdating is allowed, but this is not well detailed in the current rules (an email already sent to the rule czar).

Best,
DJM

[G450X]

Wow, $100k really opens up the possibilities!

I'd say it's would be hard to beat a GT3. I'm not a fan of the looks of the 996 GT3, but most are in the $50k-$60 range which would allow a bit of prep work without busting the budget.

The driving dynamics of the early GT3's (based on an Excellence comparison article) are outstanding - the overall driving dynamics put it over the 997 GT3 in the comparison....

Maybe an older 997 GT3 that's already set up for the track, or a nice 996 GT3?

I wish I had this "problem" to deal with! Drive in good health....

[djm68]

Originally Posted by Jim Richards

1992 Carrera Cup USA Edition #92012

I had seen that car while researching. A cup car is cool, no doubt, but the price to performance quotient is off there. It seems to me, and I am happy to be corrected if I am in error, that much of that $80k asking price is due to exclusivity -- more for a collector. For that level of money you are entering gt3 range and I would think the gt3 would provide better performance for the money.

Thanks,
DJM