valve adjustment by garage

[83 sc euro cab]

hi everyone.

how do I know if the garage i took my car to did a proper valve adjustment?

I gave them a new gasket set for them to install along with the nuts & washers (that I purchased from Pelican Parts)

Now i checked myself and they didnt use all the new nuts because some of the old nuts are still used on the covers.
As a matter of fact, it doesnt even look like they even took off one of the valve covers or even used the new gasket!......what is going on here? did I get duped?

anyone have a similar story? thanks for your reply

[orbmedia]

This is a common question. "How do I know if my mechanic actually performed the work"?

What kind of society are we living in where we have to ask these things continually? Are there no ethics left in the human race?

I guess you're going to have to go back and point out the problem as you see it and ask what exactly was done and why the new parts were not used, etc. Fun, fun, fun. Best of all you get to pay for this privledge.

Leave me alone, don't come near my 911 with your wrenches. Bah humbug.

[Pillow]

The best way is to go back and request that the new nuts are used. When they unbolt the one that you think never got taken off check that it is not "stuck" to the heads. If the cover is "stuck" "sealed" then it has been on there for a while and did not get changed during the tune-up.

From my experiences the old gaskets usually tear when being replaced... If they do not tear they are at least stuck on there really good.

I find it weird they would not use the new nuts??? Also if you are really good the new gaskets are grey where the old ones are probably oily and blackened on the edges. Hell, if I was on there 10,000 miles I would be oily and blackened as well

Good Luck!



------------------
Adrian Pillow
1979 911 SC
1966 VW Microbus
PCA - Peachstate Region

[Kurt B]

Any mechanic knows you use those kinds of nuts (with loctite or whatever) just once. They're always replaced everytime. Now for me, since my covers come on and off more frequently than just routine valve adjusts, I have to reuse them or I'd be in the poor house...
That the nuts are new on one side only...that is really strange! I'm trying to figure out how you know the valves beneath are properly adjusted without measuring them...
I'd ask...1) did they Take your nuts to use on someone else to save a 2 bucks or 2) did they fail to check the valves at all on the other side after deciding the one they checked were all perfectly in spec? 3) If they only KNEW about this board. Man, the days of screw em forget about em are over. We will find out who you are, and your business will suffer!


------------------
Kurt B
1984 Carrera Cabriolet
911 Page
carrera_cabriolet@yahoo.com

[lendaddy]

Here is a best bet scenerio,

Dave: " Hey Bob, I checked the valves on the drivers bank and they were almost in perfect adjustment already"

Bob: " Well, If one side is good the other will usually be the same, and we still have to do that wheel bearing on that '85 5000s yet today!"

Dave: " yea, alright I'll button her back up and get that Audi on the lift, he'll never know the difference"

[83 sc euro cab]

The strange thing about this shop is that they have all these "TRUST" and ethical statements on their website saying that the most importatn aspect of customer relationship is trust and how they never surprise you with any more money than the original estimate.

well, guess what? I was SURPRISED with a different estimate than was originally quoted when I went to pick up my car. the guy at the shop actually had an attitude, saying "hey, dont you ever check your messages???" anyway, when I got to shop to pick up my car,one job (replacing both L and R turn light assemblies) had cost TWICE what they originally quoted. It wasnt' the EXTRA 65 bucks I was charged, it's just the principle of the matter!!!

If you want to deviate from the original estimate, you should :

1) call me and get MY APPROVAL for the extra time on work to be down.

2) If you call me and cant reach me in that particular hour, DO NOT go ahead and ASSUME I will AGREE to the estimate modification. and DO NOT do the work! That is the GOOD customer relations, dont you think?

I'm just trying to be fair, I dont give a crap about the extra 60 bucks I was charged, it's just IMPOSING on me to assume I will agree with the new price.....

looking back at the situatioin, I know I was right but I just said, FIUK IT, it's not worth getting bent out of shape about it, which obvioulsly now I am, given the current valve adjustment issue....


maybe I will write them a letter for the record.

[MRM]

Originally posted by 83 sc euro cab:
The strange thing about this shop is that they have all these "TRUST" and ethical statements on their website saying that the most importatn aspect of customer relationship is trust and how they never surprise you with any more money than the original estimate.

* * *

I interrogate, I mean question, people. One thing I was taught was that when people start making unusual reference to truth and honesty and religion and things like that, it is what we call in the trade "indicia of deception".

In other words, someone who protests too much may or may not be above board. But this is a person that merits closer investigation and may have something to hide.

Just a thought.

[lukeh]

I had this scam pulled on me about a year after I bought my first 911. I had to quickly stop the car while in 5th gear. I couldn't then get the car out of fifth. I had to car towed, thanks AAA, fifty miles to the closest shop that worked on Porsches. I was on vacation and couldn't go to my normal shop. I rented a car for the rest of the week and had a $2,500 bill waiting for me when I picked up my car. They said they couldn't find any problems with the trans but as long as the car was there I had a clutch put in and a tuneup done. When I got home I had to take the car through emmissions and I failed for the first time. I took the car to my shop and the guy said the spark plugs looked a million years old and that the car was not tuned correctly. He made the changes and the car passed. I called the other guy and asked him what he did to my car. My reciept said new plugs were put in but they looked bad after only 250 miles. The guy blew me off. I took the receipt to my guy and told him this is what the other guy said was done. My guy said that there was no way half the stuff on the receipt was ever done. My guy picked up the phone and called the guy as he knew him from PCA events. It turns out the guy who worked on my car no longer worked for him so he had nothing to say on the subject. My guy said that he would swear in court that I didn't get what I paid for. The other guy responded tbat if I wanted to pay a lawyer to get my spark plug money back I should go ahead and take him to court. I was stuck. It would have cost me more in lost wages and fees to get back who knows what. What I learned was that just because a guy belongs to PCA, works on Porsches and owns one, that doesn't mean he is not a crook. Also, stay with a person you can trust, even if you have to pay extra for towing.

[Peter Kelly]

When they have signs all over the place saying how ethical and honest they are....BEWARE.

when they say "its not about the money...it IS about the money"

When they start out a statement with "To tell the truth..."....they are lying.

[5axis]

Name names and shout them out loud.
Give a good shop or person the praise they deserve and give a crook the publicity he deserves. Crooks have a much harder time being crooks if they have to work in broad daylight!



[This message has been edited by 5axis (edited 07-13-2001).]

[floorMatt]

I've never had a positive experience with a mechanic. Perhaps it's because I expect too much, or maybe it's because a great majority could care less about myself or my car. With out exception I've been either over-charged, under serviced (they did not do the work adequately), strung out without my car for days, or they've broken something in the process of fixing something. I've had items stolen from my car, dents and scratches have mysteriously appeared on my car. I've even had a set of door panels removed from my car and replaced with $hitty aftermarket parts (my originals were on the shop owners friends car, and no, he had no explaination). I had a Fiat tuned up and checked over right before the wheels came off on the way to a wedding. The car caught fire and burned to the ground a month later. I paid $250 on a "24 point inspection" where on point 7 they found the water pump was dripping and therefore couldn't assume the liability of driving my car around the block to complete the inspection. If confronted, in almost every case, the mechanic was furiously defensive and extremely arrogant, as though he couldn't believe that I was unhappy with his work and couldn't possibly understand the complexities of auto repair and it's subsequent billing. As a result of the trouble, I've started to do the work myself. Frankly I'd rather be mad at myself for screwing something up than be bitter towards a mechanic who could care less. I've saved thousands and learned a lot. But best of all, I don't have to hand over my money to some jacka$$ for doing crappy work. That said, I believe there are mechanics out there who are honest and capable, I just havent found one.
Matt
80SC (for sale, wink, wink)

[83 sc euro cab]

Matt,

thanks for sharing your experiences (unbelievable what happened to you!)....i suppose garages are in the business of making money these days and not necessarily doing good work on the car.

I also relate to the arrogance concerning some of these mechanics since I have experienced that myself. That's the most insulting thing. They fck up on the work or they over-charge or they damge something or whatever and then they try and make YOU feel bad about that, like it's YOUR fault....unbelievable!

anyway, you're absolutely right! the more work you can do on your car, the more power to you!

"Name names and shout them out loud."

that's exactly what Im going to do on the next post. just the facts....

[floorMatt]

83SC,
I think it's brilliant that you purchased your own parts to have them use. A: you know where they came from and that they're good quality, B: You're paying a reasonable price for them, and C: You have a clear indicator of mischevious dealings (at least in your case). If I ever have to bring my car to a mechanic again (which I will), I'll do the same.

[83 sc euro cab]

yeah, I get them to use my parts. otherwise, forget about it!

my mistake this time was not to count the number of new nuts and washers that came with the valve adjustment kit (from Pelican Parts)...I should have marked EVERY single fking nut and washer and made sure it was installed on the car. just like they do on hidden video dateline. no more bull****ting around. I PAY!

anyway, I am still puzzled as to why they didnt install all new nuts all the way around. The reason I got from the garage was that possibly not all nuts were included in the package. damit, i should have counted them.

i have to admit that the car runs great though(not that it didnt before), no oil leaks, but there still is a little tapping noise from the engine. i hope that's normal.

[Doug Zielke]

This post could also be titled:
Why I do my own work.

[Roland Kunz]

Hello

1.) Sometimes the nut comes out with the stud. As a normal mechanic you don´t fiddle the nut from the stud and reinsert it with some loctite. Cost to much time. Ans so you will see some old nuts and maybe allways the same the next years untill someone tells you your thread is gone and you need a new camtower.

2.) Porsche does date stamp nearly every part. So does the gaskets. Also Reinz and Göetze have date stamps. Usually valvecovers turnaround is under a year.


Package is 34 nuts, aluminium washers two lower and two upper gaskets.

Grüsse

[964Cab]

Funny this topid should be here this morning as I just took the right side muffler off my 993 to get at those lower 3 spark plugs. While I was there I noticed that the lower valve cover had a bunch of very old rsuty looking valve cover screws. I thoight now isn't that strange. I had the local Porsche dealer , you know the guys with the expensive looking showrooms full of Boxster and 991s, anyway I paid that well know dealer $700 for them to replace my leaking lower right side valve gasket. Of that $700 there were two exhaust clamps they needed that cost $49 each ! Ok fine, they looked very well designed exhaust clamps so that's a fair price for a high end Porsche dealer but then I saw a $15.80 for TWO 8mm LOCKING NUTs for the lower valve valve cover nuts/washers ?? cover !!! Wait a second, Vertex sells the entire valve covers gasket kit for $39 and that kit comes with all new washers and valve covers nut as well as the gaskets for all 4 valve covers. How does the dealer get $15.80 for two freaking??? The dealer charged me $22 for ONE VALVE COVER GASKET !! Heck the entire kit with nuts/washesr is $39 at Vertex !!! But the last thing that threwe me off Porsche dealers mewchanics evermore is that the mechanic used all the old nuts with the exception of two that he charged me $15.80 for. And get this, he wouldn't change the lower right side spark plugs because that a $1k 30k mile service and he would only change all the plugs none at all. I asked hiumn to change those 3 plugs because I could get most of the rest myself but they said NOPE. The next time I need to get a new valve cover gasket I'm doing it myself or sell the car before I'd ever take it back to that Porsche dealer again. BTW the car stop leaking oil.