Juggs and Cylinders from China?

[DohertyCM]

Does anyone have any info on the cylinders from China for a 2.7?

What do they cost?

Are they any good?

[88-diamondblue]

Check with Henry over at Supertec. www.supertecperformance.com Wayne was looking at these but have not heard if PP has started handling them.

[Lukesportsman]

Also, check the engine building forum for some threads in regards to these recently.

[Superman]

German parts are biggoted. They will gang up on the Chinese parts.

[LakeCleElum]

All the Chinese juggs I've seen are too small for my taste!!!!!!

[Zeke]

When dealing in the 4-banger stuff, the cheaper barrels were known to be out of round. OK to fix up an old VW with 36 HP, but maybe not for one of our cars. I'm not sure they were Chinese.

[88-diamondblue]

QSC's/JE's 3.4 on my rebuild. Purchased from Supertec. 4200 miles, compression 195-203 and leak down 2-5%

[grant911s]

My PM was brought a set to install in a guys 3.0 & he said the Nikasil finish was just awful. Said he'd never put in a set of those & there's nothing like the real thing when it costs that much to rebuild again.

[mb911]

got a set from supertec and they look awesome. the nikisil was great.I measured them with a dial bore not snap gauges and they are very true and I am very pleased.. henry would not use them if they were junk.. The pistons are not very good though from what I heard

[88-diamondblue]

The finish on these are great. The difference between these and the Mahle ($4300) was $2000. Not in my budget. The choice I had was to do this or re-ring Alusil P&C's. Read the thread on re-ringing Alusil pistons. My rebuild cost me $6000 with p&c's and almost everything replaced, machined and polished as per Wayne's book along with ARP rod bolts and everything powder coated. If I am not happy with this set up I will go to a twin plug with 3.4 Nickies from LN Engineering in a couple of years. A better look at the cylinder walls and the finished engine ready to go in the car.

[poorsha]

"All the Chinese juggs I've seen are too small for my taste!!!!!!"

[cab83_750]

Originally posted by poorsha
"All the Chinese juggs I've seen are too small for my taste!!!!!!"

Obviously, you never heard of.......

'Anything over a mouthful is garbage!!!'

[88-diamondblue]

ROFLMAO! Prefer them just a bit larger than stock!!!

[tfiv]

The Chinese juggs will be like a really bad set of fakies. Re-ring your stock stuff you'll probably be closer to factory spec.

[88-diamondblue]

tfiv,

You must not have seen the thread here on PP or what Wayne has to say about re-ringing Alusil P&C's. Wayne highly recommends against it along with Steve Weiner and Henry Schmidt. If they were Mahle I would have done just that. Success rate for Alusils are not great. Some have done it successfully but very few success stories out there. Check this thread out on the topic, only 519 posts to it.Alusil re-ringing

[mb911]

last coment on this.

Supertec would not use them for there rebuild if they were not any good. I would not buy them from anyone else as he sets up the sets for height etc. QSC is making good stuff and very reasonable.. There will always be haters but I am not one of them / many folks have had very good luck with them and the ones that had problems with them did noy buy sets that were QC'd by supertec

[charleskieffner]

after watching the chinese debacle with M-14 rifle receivers(over 200 mach. ops on just receiver) and them blowing up in peoples faces due to poor Q.C., and rockwell hardness being sub standard. i think i would be very hesitant in buying these. there is a reason why they are cheap.................and its not just the labor aspect!

another fine example ..............buy hecho en mexico,hecho in brasilia VW 1600 parts and compare to german 1600 VW fabrik parts. METALLURGY IS EVERYTHING!

theres a reason why honeywell/GE do not outsource critical hot rotating turbine parts to other countries. nor do they buy offshore iconel. material does not pass certification(rockwell hardness for one) guidelines nor does machine work pass quality control standards!

if honeywell/GE or anyone for that matter could outsource and get a quality part delivered = to an american vendor and passed all cert tests applicable, they would in a heartbeat!

watched garrett(honeywell) in the 90's, go to outsourcing. took over 300 local vendors(mach. shops) down to around 20 shops. bit them in the ass big time when sub standard parts started arriving on assy. line. garrett had to go back to old vendors that they almost or did put out of biz. so as to regain quality parts that vendors had MOT's down pat after years of making same part.

another good indication of chinese lack of quality control. you dont see any chinese machine tool manufacturers. only the swedes(sandvik), mitsuibishi, iscar(israel),kennametal(usa),komet(german), krupp(german), on the world market, to name a few.

there is only one reason the above is using chinese parts.........HIS PROFIT MARGIN!

have seen first hand companies a hell of a lot bigger than supertec or pelican go out of biz due to the standard drill of buying cheap ass substandard material or parts, and when it comes down to certification time FAIL! watched one brilliant TRW airbag trigger vendor have his ass handed to him by buying 304L-36 rockwell stainless offshore steel, they manufactured 10's of thousands of the triggers, thought they were cutting a fat hogs ass on profits, and die on the vine when all parts REJECTED by TRW due to failing rockwell hardness test. just because it has a certification stamped on it, doesnt mean it will pass certification test.

ITS NOT JUST LABOR THAT MAKES THESE PARTS CHEAP!

[criv911]

I too have thought about this set up and for about the same price you can send your cylinders to U.S. chrome in Wisconsin and have them bored and plated. Which is better, I can't say but for those that will not tolerate Chinese products in their German girl here is a good ole' U.S of A. answer. Personally I just want the best choice for my car.

[HawgRyder]

Along the same thought lines....
Is it possible to sleeve these cylinders?
I have used sleeves in diesel and gas engines in the past, but never tried an air-cooled one that I can remember.
Some sleeves are extremely thin, so with a slight overbore and a thin sleeve, you would end up with a stock bore size.
And...the heat transfer should be consistant...with the benefit of some great new technology in the metalurgy of the material.
Bob

[cnavarro]

JB Racing makes a sleeved cylinder already, and they are quite nice looking too! Not like some of the cylinders I have seen where a liner is crammed into a stock cylinder - a bad idea, considering the interference fit required to maintain contact between the aluminum and cast iron across the wide range of operating temperatures AND the fact that the liners are either too thin OR the cast aluminum portion is so weakened it cracks and looses the interference fit altogether. JB makes a billet fin section into which the liner is installed - much stronger if you ask me and as good as a biral cylinder can get.

With an aircooled cylinder, the sleeve must be fairly sizeable for rigidity, so heat transfer unfortunately is the sacrificial lamb, but as with anything, there are times when sheer strength over cooling or longevity is desired. On the 912, the birals used there were twice cast and had fairly thin iron liner sections - the most you could overbore is about 1mm. They succumb to washboarding among other problems associated with a 'biral' style cylinder and thermal overloading (reduced ring seal, ovality, etc) as was very well documented with the 356 and 912s back in the 60s.

We actually made biral cylinders years ago and stopped because they are relatively expensive to make and sell compared to a nikasil cylinder, and didn't perform much better than a cast-iron cylinder in our own testing, but did wear better and at the extreme, did marginally outperform a cast iron cylinder just because the liner itself was a better ductile iron.