Ride Height - How low is too low?
 

So for the folks running lower ride heights (Lower than euro) what tricks are you using to keep from rubbing?

My example - 84 Carrera 22/29 t-bars, Sport Bilsteins, max camber front and rear, running 17 inch Fikse 255 rear and 225 front.

I am at about 24.5 in the rear and 24.25 in the front (fender to ground, I know not super accurate but close enough for comparo purposes.

As it stands now I need an adjsutable bump steer kit (have rack spacers) but tie rod angles are still off.

What are other folks running?

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1312918083.jpg

Well, legally when something hangs lower than tire height. Mechanically when shocks bottom out or when the steering is compromised.

Around 23 inches or less at wheel arch to ground is where it gets iffy.

How low is to low? When a CHP pulls you over, pulls out his billy club with a notch on it and checks to see if the center of the head light is below or above notch.

I think mine is stock. I know I've never change the ride height and the PO did not either. 25" front and 24.5" rear. Seems just right to me. I'm also running stock tire/wheel sizes. Only the sway bars are a little larger but that wouldn't contribute to a height change.

Right - so let's say you are right at 24 - does that require bump stop cutting? I guess if there was a chart with ride heights and what that would entail, that would help. Knowing that all cars are different that has to be some givens that need to be doen at certain ride heights.

That's about euro ride height. Should be OK unless you do something stoopid like run 24s with rubber band tires....

When your front control arms are level or the inner most point is lower than the ball joint, that is to low.
You want to keep the front a-arm at an angle so that the inner bushings are higher than the ball joint.

RIch

Parker,

I have pretty much the same setup as you on my 89 including the steering rack spacers and everything is fine,even on the track...
My hand does not fit between the top of the rear tire and the fender in the rear and in the front my knuckles just clear it.
Your car looks perfect the way it is !

Cheers !
Phil

"So for the folks running lower ride heights (Lower than euro) what tricks are you using to keep from rubbing?" ...16" Fuchs.... Mine is a little lower than real 'Euro'; not much though. I think your front needs to go up maybe 1/2". Just IMHO. But then I don't like 17s, but just my opinion of course. Your car looks pretty sharp (otherwise)! ;) :)

I'm at about 24.75 FR and 24.25 RR. I have no rubbing on 225/255 on 17s, though my front fenders are rolled. To combat bump steer, my front spindles are raised 3/4 of an inch with Elephant's bump steer kit. I have no bump steer at all now. The pic below is about a quarter inch higher than these measurements. It wouldn't hurt my feelings to get back up to that height.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1312944193.jpg

that is a sweet looking ride :)

its never too low, slammed with everything else stock, no rubbing at all. used to rub with 225's at the front now with 205's all good.

http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/5281/lown.jpg

Now that looks low ... :)
Nice picture !

Cheers !
Phil

syzygy, Are you running stock torsion bars and swaybars, or did you upgrade them?

Torsions are 22/28, but sways are stock.

Thanks. As you already know, it's an awesome ride.

Thank you very much.

That's actually a lot lower than Euro ride height. I wouldn't care to run that low on the street. I had a car 30 years ago that was lowered to that point when I bought it and it was a pain, in normal driving. I think there is a tradeoff between what looks nice and what works well. I think that most people that lower a 911 run too low a ride height.

Just my .02..

JR

syzygy, not to be a pain in the butt, but I have another question. You say in your original post that in the picture posted above that your car sat a quarter of an inch higher, front and rear.

Was the suspension at that time as you have it now (raised spindles and 22/28 torsions) or was it stock? I ask because I'd love to get a set of Zuchs for my car and it currently sets at the ride height in your pic. Thank you.

I think that is the issue - my control arms are level, the tie rods are at a ridiculous angle.

I think I need the bolt on bump steer kit.

That pic was taken last summer. The car had quite a bit of bump steer at that time. To my knowledge, the suspension was all stock, though I haven't measured the old TBs yet.

Early this summer, I had the suspension refurbished with some upgrades. Larger torsion bars were installed as well as new struts with raised spindles. In the process of corner balancing and alignment, it was lowered about 1/4 inch; it used to be 25/24.5 inches. That wasn't my intent and I suppose I wasn't clear enough in my desires. Regardless of the height, the bump steer issue has all but disappeared.

That is exactly what I wanted to hear. Mine sets at 25/24.5. It has rack spacers so bump steer isn't much of an issue, but I was thinking of upgrading my suspension a little more. The upgrades, along with wheel/tire combo, is exactly as you currently have, only I'd prefer to keep my ride height where it's at now. Thank you, I really appreciate it and really, really like your car.

I'm at 24 and 24.5 - really about as low as I want to go.

Bump steer kit -

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1289081078.jpg

with my track wheels
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1294087541.jpg

at speed
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1305208946.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1305209144.jpg

Be prepared to roll your fenders. I had to at least.

One step ahead of you. I also wasn't presistant enough with my alignment shop. They reduced my front camber significantly resulting in slight rubbing at the left front with my 205/55-16's on 7's. So I trimmed my fenders and used the slimmest dolly I could find to hammer what was left of my lip upward.

Once it is as low as it can go. Mounts 15 inch rims with low profile tires for the track and now you are talking.

Chris
73 911 E

That low is almost wheel chair accessible... :)

Jeremy reagarding the bump steer kit - you talking rack spacers or tie rod kit or both?

Like I said I am at 24.5 and 24.25 and my tie rods are reaching for the moon, with the rack spacer.

Rack spacer on mine - that's all - even with sebring (known for lots o bumps) not bad at all

Any idea what your tie rods look like? Angle wise?

I just got the car back from the shop. It was not level so I had it adjusted and the alignment re-done. I went about as low as you can go with no rubbing. The rear was about 1/2" lower and we had to take it back up. It's currently set at 24-7/8"rear and 25-1/8"front. Running 16x6s front and 16x7s in the rear. Suspension is stock with Bilstein shocks. I have been wondering if I need the bump steer kit, but honestly haven't spent any time on it as I've been working on so many other things on the car.

Here's a pic:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1313169153.jpg

At what point do drop spindle struts make sense?

I can't imagine being able to go lower than Jeremy with my car.

Thoughts?

Raised spindles for me was to correct suspension geometry and eliminate bump steer. I suppose if your steering is kinda wonky (bump steer or tie rods level or angled up) it might be time.

My 79 with 17 inch wheels sits at 26.5 front 25 rear.

Pretty much all ER track race with 23 / 31 Torsion bars and Tarret sways. 225/15 in front with 235/15 in rear on 7s and 8s. Fenders were rolled before paint.http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1313288247.jpg

Sorry. I was talking out my butt on this one. I got the raised spindles because the car IS rather low and I wanted the suspension geometry as close to stock as possible. It will return some of the damper travel as they will be compressed as the suspension is lowered. I just wanted a fuller range of motion.

However. If you do raise the spindles you will require a bump steer kit as the steering arm/knuckle gets raised as well. If you have objectionable bump steer, this part is a no brainer.

Any idea how much?

Elephant shows these strut spindle heights:

+19mm / 15 inch wheels
+30mm / 16 inch wheels
+40mm / 17 inch wheels
Custom height available

I'm trying to understand why wheel size matters if you go with the appropriate size tire to keep the tire diameter the same.

If you raise the spindle the ball joint almost rubs on the inner wheel rim so the wheel size dictates how far you can raise them.

Here is standard height. If you raise the spindle the A-arm stays where it is but the wheel moves up.

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5018/...62d4d4ee_z.jpg
Front Suspension Geometry_ 012 by Max_911_fahrer, on Flickr

You can´t get low enough.. :)


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