87 911 - No start issue

w00zie · 08-08-2011, 12:11 PM

Ok,,,,so part of me thinks this is a simple issue caused by myself but looking for some wisdom

1987 911,,,,,car starts & runs fine, no problems until today

Got in car in my garage, started it (no problem), pulled out, stopped turned car off.

Came to turn car on again, within a second of engine turning, i turned the key off before it got a chance to start (cell phone rang)

Now, my car won't even turn or start. I turn the key, get one click and that's it. Everything works, windows, sunroof, stereo etc..

Even tried to boost the car to see if it was the battery and nothing

Could i have blown a fuse?

I know in my 993 i had the immobilizer issue that could be resolved by locking the doors, but i don't think there was any of that in the 87 911.

Tried disconnecting the battery for a couple min to try to reset and nothing

Alternator was replaced 8,000 miles ago, and i would have thought a starter would have been intermittent

Any ideas or suggestions?

Thanks in advance!!!

Por_sha911 · Por_sha911's Garage

The search button is your friend.

Look for DME Relay replacement. Even if you don't need it now, you should have one in the glove box. Its a matter of when not if it dies.

hcoles · 08-08-2011, 12:23 PM

does a failed DME relay keep the engine from turning over? just asking. Carry a spare DME relay in any case

Por_sha911 · Por_sha911's Garage

Oh snap, my mistake. I was thinking it wouldn't fire. Never mind.
It could be an alarm system gone bad, your ignition switch, there are a host of things. Let it cool down and then see if the problem is starting when hot.
I you have power to lights and everything else, maybe try gently banging on the starter to see if it is stuck.

w00zie · 08-08-2011, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Por_sha911

Oh snap, my mistake. I was thinking it wouldn't fire. Never mind.
It could be an alarm system gone bad, your ignition switch, there are a host of things. Let it cool down and then see if the problem is starting when hot.
I you have power to lights and everything else, maybe try gently banging on the starter to see if it is stuck.

Stupid question....where's the starter,,,,looking for it can't find it (it's probably right in front of me)

On a seperate note, did the alarm in 87 have an immobilizer? i thought it would just set off the alarm

I'll try to get another relay, will one of the relays in the front trunk work (just to test out to see if that's the problem?)

thanks

hcoles · 08-08-2011, 12:50 PM

starter is on the high side of the transmission, probably can't see it unless you can get under the car

Por_sha911 · Por_sha911's Garage

DME relay is rectangular & under the drivers seat. Not the same as the ones in the front. Move the seat as far forward as you can. From the back, use a 10mm deep socket to reach the one nut holding it to the floor and then unplug it. http://www.pelicanparts.com/cgi-bin/smart/more_info.cgi?pn=911-618-154-00-M252&catalog_description=DME%20Relay%20%28located%20und er%20driver%20seat%29%2C%20%39%31%31%20Carrera%20% 28%31%39%38%34%2D%38%39%29%20

Starter is on the passenger side of the transmission above the CV axle. You would have to jack up the car and put it on jackstands to safely reach the starter.

When the factory alarm would cause the car to not start but I believe it would still turn over. I was thinking more along the lines of an aftermarket alarm. Back then, the installers did some strange things. Also, after years, sometimes the electronics will go bad.

Hendog · Hendog's Garage

You may have stopped the starter and it didn't get a chance for the solenoid to disengage (not really sure if this is possible but...). So, WITHOUT the key in the ignition put the car in gear and rock it back and forth. This will engage the wheels to the transmission and, if the starter for some wild a$$ reason is still engaged, it will knock it loose. Take the car OUT of gear and try starting it. Otherwise change the DME relay.

w00zie · 08-08-2011, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hendog

You may have stopped the starter and it didn't get a chance for the solenoid to disengage (not really sure if this is possible but...). So, WITHOUT the key in the ignition put the car in gear and rock it back and forth. This will engage the wheels to the transmission and, if the starter for some wild a$$ reason is still engaged, it will knock it loose. Take the car OUT of gear and try starting it. Otherwise change the DME relay.

DME relay changed......still same issue.

I'll try rocking it back & fwd

Thanks

w00zie · 08-08-2011, 03:50 PM

No luck rocking it.....bang'd the starter a bit and nothing

Very odd,,,,car has been running fine, even went for a nice drive this morning

Hendog · Hendog's Garage

When you tried boosting it, did you leave the booster cables on for a minute or so before tryint to start? If your battery is low/bad you need to let it charge a little before trying to start it. Make sure you attach the cables' neg side on the car you're boosting (your 911) to the chassis and not the battery.

Also, have your radio on. It should continue to play while turning over; mine does. If it dies, then the voltage is definately dropping very low.

w00zie · 08-08-2011, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hendog

When you tried boosting it, did you leave the booster cables on for a minute or so before tryint to start? If your battery is low/bad you need to let it charge a little before trying to start it. Make sure you attach the cables' neg side on the car you're boosting (your 911) to the chassis and not the battery.

Also, have your radio on. It should continue to play while turning over; mine does. If it dies, then the voltage is definately dropping very low.

Tried boosting, no go

Radio is solid when turning over, so i don't think it's a battery issue

I'm wondering if it's the starter, i just thought starter issues were more gradual, and not instant.

kidrock · 08-08-2011, 06:24 PM

sounds like a hot start issue. Bang on solenoid.

Chris Lovell · 08-08-2011, 07:10 PM

+1 battery ground. Check all the way to the frame. Classic rust out problem. I am also thinking ignition switch or God forbid, the factory alarm. And btw, the prior owner didn'e perhaps install a kill switch under the dash or nearby which you bumped when scrambling for your cell phone? You wouldn't be the first one.
CL

w00zie · 08-08-2011, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Lovell

+1 battery ground. Check all the way to the frame. Classic rust out problem. I am also thinking ignition switch or God forbid, the factory alarm. And btw, the prior owner didn'e perhaps install a kill switch under the dash or nearby which you bumped when scrambling for your cell phone? You wouldn't be the first one.
CL

no, no aftermarket alarm

tracing ground

Quicksilver · 08-08-2011, 08:31 PM

Turn the headlights on. Are they bright or dim?
If they are dim the battery is dead.

If they are bright leave them on and try to crank the car. When you turned they key did the lights dim? If they did the starter is drawing but not turning. Your going to have to RnR the starter.

If the lights didn't dim but you heard a click then it isn't drawing anything when the solenoid clicks. Could be bad solenoid. Check the solenoid connection to the starter for 12 volts when the key is turned.

Low or zero voltage means bad solenoid. 12 volts means starter is bad.

-----
Oh, and I have never had a radio that stayed on while cranking. Those systems are supposed to drop when cranking.

nkotselas · nkotselas's Garage

When this happens on my car it is the round plug by the fuses (the name escapes me) the red one. For some reason it doesn't want to stay in. After that you should always check the relay, as that is a common problem.

My car also wouldn't start about a month ago, my mechanic and I couldn't discover the issue until we found a wire got disconnected to the dme. Check the basics first and try to borrow someone's dme if you can to check. Its worth buying a new dme and keeping it in the car just in case

jorijori · jorijori's Garage

This could be caused by the ignition switch electrical plug. Symptom is you turn the key and hear nothing as if battery is dead. In my case it happens over time, sometimes ignition will turn the starter, sometimes it won't. Keep turning the key, try at least 5 - 10 times.

Part# 964 613 012 00 $90 from our host.

Quicksilver · 08-09-2011, 11:03 AM

Oh, and I know you are past it but the DME relay has nothing to do with cranking the starter. The DME relay's big contribution is to energize the fuel pump but only after the DME sees that the engine is turning.

grendiers · 08-11-2011, 09:37 AM

I know this is a couple days old, but I was about to reactivate a search on my no-crank in the '85. My first trouble was back in April of this year when I bought the car. After throwing quite a few parts at the situation, determined that a battery drain was taking away my sanity. The drain was an always-on power window relay. Rewired that to a different fuse, and windows work like they should. Recharged the battery and away I went.

2000 miles later, no cranky once again. Solenoid clicks away with the ignition switch, and the push button switch I installed before. Hmmmm, search for cause, all drains are fixed, a new one? Anyway, started by taking battery to FLAPS, 340 cranking amps out of a 1080 battery! Bought a new 'charged' battery, and put it in. Ugh, din't work. Pushed started it to see charging amps, well within specs. Shut off, no recrank, 12.65 volts out of battery and back at starter, hmmm, wiring good.

Put charger on starter hot wire, and ground to engine. Reached in and hit the switch, no crank. Frustrated, I left the battery charger on for a few minutes, saw amps go from 20 to 10! Battery wasn't charged all the way! Removed everything, lowered car, reached in, zoom, zoom, zoom, once again. Dammit Jim, it's the amps not the voltage!