Let's play "Name That Sound"
 

3.2L engine. New to me, 92k, suspected recent oil overfill. Haven't pulled the valve covers yet, so I can't rule out a loose valve or broken head stud yet. Let's hear what the brain trust thinks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emfvPkb43LY&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Remove the Fan and AC belt if you have it and try again.

It may be the chain tensioners. Get a Stethescope from HB and listen for which side it may be coming from.

Over fill may just be a coincedense.

What Brand and Type of oil are you using?

Jim

www.youtube.com/watch?v=emfvPkb43LY&feature=player_detailpage

You sure all the plugs are in correctly? Hard to tell, but almost sounds like it's firing on 5 cyls.

It looks like one of the chain tensioners to me.

I can't remember what it sounded like when one of my tensioners failed. Probably a good idea to listen to each chain box with a stethoscope or at least a long stick/screwdriver - put your ear to it.

The above just sounds a bit like when I managed to miss the #3 plug with the wire, even thought it felt like a good connection. The 911 sounded and felt like a VW.

Don't run the engine too much longer, try and get the tools to diagnose all together and do as much as you can with the engine running as little as possible. Good luck!

I had a chain tensioner fail on my 88 3.2. It didn't sound anything like the engine in post #2. In fact, it didn't make noise until just off idle and it went away around 2000 rpm. Luckily no damage. The tensioners can be changed with the engine in the car with partial drop but it is a bit of a pita.

When you get that stethoscope or long screwdriver, try listening to the distributor too. Or maybe pull the cap and see if the rotor has been scraping the cap contacts.

I don't remember it being that loud before I rebuilt my dizzy, but I had a lot of play in the shaft and there was definitely a ticking sound.

Because its a Carrera, I think the biggest decision you have is weather it is rod bearing 2 or 5. Dont keep running it.
Bruce

Besides the clacking, I'm hearing a whining that sounds like something was straining. I seriously doubt its a loose valve. I also don't think you should run it until you find the problem.

Pelicaners,
The car is 'new to me'. The suspected overfill is my diagnosis after listening to the PO's account of "driving for a little while, then massive smoke, and poor running". This was corroborated by finding a ton of oil in the sump and tank, as well as badly oiled/fouled plugs. The video you see is me starting it up for the first time after running a compression test (passed with flying colors, all in range of 150 psi) and inspecting the drain plugs (pristine). I put in new plugs and fresh 20W50.

The noise sounds more like escaping gases from somewhere than a metallic noise, so I am tending to discount the loose valve and rod bearing possibilities. It also sounds like it is isolated to one hole, so I am also discounting chain tensioner and fan issues. My money is on head studs right now. Unfortunately, I won't be able to get back to the car until Sunday.

Don't worry, the car is not being driven right now...among other things, the throttle rod between the transmission and engine bell cranks is missing. Anybody feel like sending me one?? The car also needs a front pan job. Been almost nine years since I did that job.

So finishing up some work early this afternoon, I headed out to log some time on the new car. All head studs intact on lower 1-3. Found one loose exhaust valve, tightened that up. Pulled the alternator belt. Noise is still there, unchanged. Next up, check the lower 4-6, then upper 1-6. That'll have to wait until tomorrow.

I'm guessing a cyl. to head leak.

Have you made sure the plug wires are seated correctly? Really can't hurt.

Yup! Twice. Thanks Dave!

Subscribed since I'm curious. Sounds like a baseball card in the spokes.


That video is like the Blair Witch Project.

Midnight in my driveway :D

Are all the plugs tight?

Exhaust leak?

Elusive. Reinstalled all the plugs then checked firing order. Everything was correct. Checked the rest of the head studs and all the valve lash. All good. Cut open the old oil filter, perfectly normal.

Now I am working on getting to the chain cases so I can inspect the chain tensioners.

OK, here's the list of what I've checked/done:
-reinstalled plugs (checked for cross threading on removal, no signs)
-checked firing order - OK
-checked cap/rotor - OK
-checked head studs and inspected under engine for combustion leaks - OK
-checked valve lash - OK
-checked oil filter innards - OK
-checked drain plugs - OK
-disconnected fan/alternator - OK
-checked tensioners - OK
-inspected chain ramps, sprockets, idlers - OK

Last night I had a look at the chain tensioners, they were not fully compressed at all and I could not deflect the plunger with a screwdriver and plenty of force applied downward. Based on everything above, and the fact that this sound is not really present at idle, but manifests under load, am I looking at a teardown? If so, and a rod has failed, what are the chances of the crank surviving?

Tensioner on 1-2-3 bank:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1314124468.jpg


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1314124517.jpg

Tensioner on 4-5-6 bank:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1314124587.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1314124646.jpg

Maybe a silly idea but ... if it's crank/rod/bushing issue, would there be high copper/metal content in the oil? For $25, you may want to send the oil into a lab for analysis?

Exactly what I thought, and the oil filter contents were quite clean - frankly the insides of this engine are clean enough to eat from.

An idea that was just offered in an email thread is broken valve spring. I'm going to check that next - I didn't even think to check that when I was going over the rockers and head studs.

A broken or lose head-stud is supposed to be a higher pitched "bird chipping" like sound, right?

What if more than one head-stud on a cylinder worked it way off or lose and is allowing a larger than normal air leak?

Could it be an intake leak? Just thinking it's not loud enough nor low enough in frequency to be an exhaust leak.

Head studs, and head/cylinder joints, have already been checked. Intake leak is possible but the sound seems wrong.

Head studs.............both top and bottom?

I'm not expert, and I know it's not a guessing game. So I'll just watch this one, a very interesting problem.

hi,
could be cracked exhaust flange on one of the cylinders.
hope this helps.
Anthony.

I may have missed it... did you do the stethoscope or long screwdriver thing?

When I re-listened to it, it sounded like air to me too.

So an update!

The long screwdriver trick revealed a rattle in the #4 cylinder head. Absolutely no rattle from the bottom end. This was difficult to check while the engine was running and spewing oil everywhere out of the exhaust....that was 30 minutes of hazmat cleanup. Yuck.

Anyway, I pulled the motor and tore it down over the weekend. All the valve guides are shot; #4 had one that was so bad that the vibration broke off part of the guide. That was the same head that was producing the sound.

Haven't gotten all the pistons and cylinders off yet, but so far they are in perfect condition. Nikasil cylinders. No broken rings. Rods feel 'right'.

Not sure what I'm going to do with this motor yet, but a twin-plug 3.4 or 3.5 is sounding pretty attractive.

I didn't expect that. Pretty much sucks, but good to know you know now.

I don't recall you mentioning the oil flow out of the exhaust. That sucks too.

Keep us posted on your progress and/or mods. Where are you planning to get the heads reworked?

Shawn

Well, it was honestly the best possible news of all the scenarios requiring teardown. I was thinking broken rings, foreign object, rod bearing, etc.

The exhaust was full of oil - when I brought the car home, I was thinking it was just suffering from an over-fill (Hey I can dream, right??) due to all the smoke - it was otherwise running fine after putting in some fresh plugs. Wonder if the cat is ruined?

Heads - not sure yet. I got my last set of heads done at EBS Racing and was really happy with the work. I may use Black Forest Racing this time around; they are semi-local (down in Charlotte). I'll still have to call EBS Racing for the JE pistons, Wrightwood gasket set, and other tasty bits for building the 3.4.

And there's me thinking its just a few exhaust studs broken!:eek:
Anyway, glad to hear that you have now sussed the problem, and apart from the heads needing re-working, its not as bad as it could have been, still bad enough on the wallet though.
hope you get it sorted soon.:)
Anthony.