911 or 964 as winter car?

[Canada Kev]

I know some people use the (relatively) cheap boxster as winter "beater." With the prices of 964 C4s now, I am considering doing the same thing but with a C4 or maybe a 3.2. You know, to have a fun winter car. My '87 is too nice to drive and subject to our long and nasty winters with the gravel (they call it sand ) and poor driver covered roads.

I have also considered a 3.2 Carrera for this duty. The only thing is that the all wheel drive of the C4 in deep snow in a low car could prove to be invaluable. However, I have found that even in my Jeep with real winter tires in deep snow at anything higher than parking lot speeds, its four wheel drive was more of a hassle with an amazing amount of under steer. Two-by was far easier to steer around city blocks with a quick accelerator stab. I suspect that the all wheel drive of the C4 would handle this better than a locked center differential SUV, though.

Proper winter tires would be worn by whichever car I should choose to purchase and a Carrera would likely morph into a rally looking type car with some extra clearance. Perhaps a C4 would be modded like this, too. Hell, it might even turn into my weekend camping trip vehicle with a Yakima rack.

I'm not terribly concerned with the cosmetic appearance of the car, as well as mileage. That's kind of the point - I don't want something pretty or too nice that would concern me with moron drivers and seasonal road hazards. Mechanical reliability would be key, however.

Winter here is mostly frigging cold - freeze the nuts off a steel bridge kind of cold. It's generally in the range of 10F to -20F from December through to the end of February. How will the cars handle cold with starting up in these sub-freezing temps? There is no block heater to plug in, but I suppose one could use a large magnetic oil pan heater stuck to the side of the oil tank. Would that make enough of a difference to the oil temperature on start up? Will they actually get up to full operating temperature? How about the heater? The other thing is that it wouldn't be a daily driver. I have a work truck I usually use, but not on weekends or for putzing around town after work.

Anyway, this is just a plan forming in my brain right now with the cold just around the corner. Thanks for any input.

[1990C4S]

I have had one for three years. They are excellent winter cars.

The heat is there after about a minute of driving, the heated seats are good, and with four snow tires (16", not 17") they are safe and fun. And mine starts first try whatever temperature.

The only downside is that the sport seats are tight with a coat on. At under $20k I see these as really good winter beaters. Actually, it's a good year round car.

[nesslar]

I'd agree. I don't drive my 911 in even just wet weather, but I may start to do so just to enjoy it even more often. It's a 3.2 Targa, and does not leak, so my only worry in the snow would be the 'snowplow' effect of the front spoiler! Problem being I can just see the white stuff piling up big time up front; would block my radiator air flow, I fear.

[exc911ence]

Funny, I've been playing with the idea of a 996 C4 as a winter beater since their values have dropped so far. It's a modern car with a "proper" heating system so I think it would do the job quite well... assuming the engine doesn't unexpectantly expire.

I'd feel pretty guilty driving any "classic" 911 in the winter just because of the horrendous amount of road salt Ontario uses. Even with a thick oil spray on the car, I can imagine the headlight bowls, etc wouldn't last too many years before rotting out. Scary mental-picture.

[1990C4S]

Originally Posted by exc911ence

.. so I think it would do the job quite well... assuming the engine doesn't unexpectantly expire.

No more likely in winter than summer. Maybe less likely. It won't over-heat....

[Vincent Hill]

The #1 thing I do when it gets cold is to lower the Amount of Oil I run. Instead us using 12 Quarts I run on about 10 Quarts. This seems to reduce the amount of Water Build up and less Oil takes a shorter time to heat up and vaporise the water. that is my #1 concern. Second. I tool the time to paint everything under the car with either Epoxy Paint or Truck Bed Liner (Epoxy on the exposed engine parts and the Truck Bed Liner in the Wheel Wells and the FLoor Pan.

[exc911ence]

Originally Posted by 1990C4S

No more likely in winter than summer. Maybe less likely. It won't over-heat....

Plus thicker, colder oil to help lubricate the worn-out IMS bearing!

[rgrimm]

I've always read that the 4-wheel-drive system on the 964s is better in the snow than the more recent versions.

There are people who do it...and they have great fun motoring away from the big sport utes at stop lights.

Real tempting...

[89911]

Since you already own a 911, why the need to have another Porsche only as a winter beater? Sure there is a "cool" factor, but I think that would get old as soon as parts and upkeep start adding up. Just seems there are plenty of cars out there (Subaru, Toyota or any similar 4 wheel drive) that could do anything a Porsche could in winter but better except have a Porsche crest.

[marksearls]

I too have considered this. I currently have a 2004 VW R32 and a longhood and thinking of consolidating to one vehicle and a 964 C4 might fit the bill. The R is amazing in the snow so I will be interested in following this thread to find out more about the C4.

[1990C4S]

Originally Posted by 89911

Since you already own a 911, why the need to have another Porsche only as a winter beater? Sure there is a "cool" factor, but I think that would get old as soon as parts and upkeep start adding up. Just seems there are plenty of cars out there (Subaru, Toyota or any similar 4 wheel drive) that could do anything a Porsche could in winter but better except have a Porsche crest.

If practicality is your goal buy a front wheel drive car and four snow tires.

In the original post he did say he wanted a fun winter car. All of the cars you list are practical. None pass my personal fun test.

[Canada Kev]

Yeah, thanks, that is the idea. I drive my work truck most of the time, Monday to Friday, and my Jeep for the foot of fresh snow on the ground mornings. This is purely for fun transportation in the off season (which turns out to be just as long as the on season, so my P-car withdrawal becomes kind of acute). If you gotta go somewhere, why not enjoy it? Hell, even if you don't actually HAVE to go somewhere, sometimes it's fun to go blow off some steam anyway, no?

[87911jon]

Great topic. Picking up a 964 C4 this weekend!

[Alan Goettel]

I made an offer on a 200,000 mile C4 this morning. I have an RS America (See Engine Building - 964 Re Rebuild). I figured I was going in for a parts car, but everything works, so why not?

I have a 4wd (company) Truck, and a (wifes) suby beater, but the 1-5 hour ski drives become an adventure in themselves with a 964.

[Alan Goettel]

I was going to open another thread, but this one is looking good. If anyone has any experience with 4WD repair costs, and the availablity and cost of repair parts, any help I can get will be greatly appreciated.

[Boomtown Rat]

I have both, a 3.2 and a 964 Carrera 4. I wouldn't dream of subjecting either to our winters (Bavaria). Not that they are particularly cold (Professor Porsche often said, "Air doesn't boil or freeze"), but because of the SALT. They use rock salt and brine here. The rock salt would provide the perfect "media blast" and the brine would start eating the "blasted" areas. To boot, the brine will creep in all the places that it shouldn't.
If you must drive one of these fine automobiles that are becoming rarer every year, then a 964 Carrera 4. At least it'll get you sure-footedly where you're going, before decomposing.

[gtc]

I would think about a later 944 n/a. They have ABS and a ~50/50 weight distribution, they're cheap, and I suspect the engine would be a lot easier to fit with a block heater. I don't think that heating just a 911's oil tank is a very good solution.
I drive my car year round and it does awesome in the snow, but I can tell it does not like very cold starts (maybe that was just due to the pudding-like consistency of Brad Penn at 20F) and also it takes a long time to defrost.

[darrin]

I drive my '86 targa year-round as my daily driver here in Denver. Snow tires are key for cold weather (I run nokian wr-g2s on 16x6/16x7 dedicated wheels in the winter). Since the engine (weight) sits over rear drive wheels, the 911 does surprisingly well in the slippery stuff (traction is comparable to a good front wheel drive car). The unweighted front wheels make slippery conditions a lot of fun too.

Hitting up a diy wand-style car wash frees a lot of sand/gravel/muck from the wheel wells, and the heat/defroster system is quite effective against the cold.

I've enjoyed taking my 911 over berthoud pass when covered with snow several times to ski at Winter Park, and have driven past many stuck/etc. cars. As indicated above, snow tires are key and, imo, a lot more important than 4 wheel drive.

My dad actually cracked part of the rear suspension in his 996c4 when it slid sideways after stopping on a on a crowned icy/slushy road running summer tires, again highlighting that imo, proper tires are a lot more important than 4wd

[DaveE]

I use my Boxster daily in the winter, with Blizzaks and a hardtop. It has traction control also and great heat including heated seats. I've driven 914s and 912s in the winter and they got around well but the salt took it's toll.

[1990C4S]

Originally Posted by Alan Goettel

I was going to open another thread, but this one is looking good. If anyone has any experience with 4WD repair costs, and the availablity and cost of repair parts, any help I can get will be greatly appreciated.

I don't know anyone who has had an AWD failure. Ever.