Need some legal advice!

doofdog · doofdog's Garage

Guys I know this is offtopic But hardly anyone goes there. So im sorry but please read!

Today while parked at work the fuel oil truck came to deliver the oil. Well, while fueling the hose ruptured and sprayed fuel oil all over our 2001 Saab Viggen. Close to 100 gallons. Well $4700.00 worth of damage, Mostly weather strippings, moldings, Hood badges, the wind shield, And one wheel, This stuff ate the clear coat right off the wheel. I dont know how my paint survived but apperently the wax took most of the damage and the rest will buff out. Well anyways The car smells like a gas station and my question is has anyone ever heard of an insurance company purchasing a new car if the smell cant be removed? It is reched. If it wont come out I want a new Car. So much for that new car smell which it did have even after all this time. Thanks Guys.

Jdub · 03-15-2002, 02:30 PM

The car is totaled; aim for that and take no prisoners!

Ask the insurance agent to drive the car for a week. See how he feels about it. You will never, ever get diesel fuel out of the upholstery, headliner, etc: anything that could even remotely absorb the liquid or vapor is toast.

Alternative is a complete strip of the car and rebuild with new seats, etc.

John

makaio · 03-15-2002, 02:30 PM

No I have not had it personnally done, but i know if a smell like gas or oil , or fire is still present, they have to either fix it or buy it.

thabaer · thabaer's Garage

I'd call it flood damage totaled by way of toxic waste.

BTW John: you've inspired me to go home and play in my own Ultimate Muffin Research Kitchen, in Frank's honor.

juanbenae · juanbenae's Garage

remember the episode of seinfeld when the smell of the valets BO would not leave the car? kinda like that but with a hankie out the window you're nothing more that a europian molotave cocktail. i really like the idea of making the claims adjuster drive the car,, one of those walk a mile in my shoes deals. i hope knowone was hurt and the runoff did not enter the stormdrain facilities, what an enviormental nightmare.

doofdog · doofdog's Garage

Thanks guys. I am going to hope for the best but if that happens mayby a 993?

Bill Douglas · 02:56 PM

My opion is it's the company that owns the fuel trucks problem. Get them to replace the car and pay for a rental in the mean time.

Speak to them nicely and if you don't get a good response meantion the enviromental laws etc, and make them realise that instead of opening a huge can of worms they can get out of it by just buying you out of your car.

You may be able to buy it back off the insurance company for a few hundred, leave the doors open for a few weeks and it will be fine and that way you will have two Saabs

Jdub · 03-15-2002, 02:56 PM

Now maybe I am over the top on totalling this bad boy. I am assuming that, even if not doused, a part by virtue of simply being in the area would be enough to start the absorbtion process and then all bets are off.

It is a compromised car though. I think it would be very difficult to get rid of the smell.

John

PS: My brother turned me on to Zappa's "Uncle Meat" and it's been downhill since then. Who else played with everyone from George Duke to Ian Underwood? And such a fisherman as well (or was that Vanilla Fudge?!!!)

I guess if you're under 30 you aren't gonna get that one...

feelyx · 03-15-2002, 03:41 PM

I think I will blast Joe's Garage in his honor tonight.

....as for the car... drive it some where and light it on fire...

Tim in Sac

nostatic · nostatic's Garage

I have Peaches En Regalia playing as I type...

I've also got a very funny bootleg Medley of Beatles tunes (Texas Motel [Norwegian Wood], Lousiana Hooker with Herpes [Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds], and Texas Motel reprise [Strawberry Fields]).

These are twisted times indeed...

And you should be able to get the car totaled under some sort of "acceptable performance" clause. The performance of the auto should extend to all senses including smell. Or you could do the flammability testing...that could be fun.

Rod Walter · 03-15-2002, 04:58 PM

When I worked for Marathon Oil a customer was a filling a container with diesel in the back of his Jeep Wagoneer. A hose split or something and diesel sprayed all over the back of the car. Knowing that the car could never be cleaned completely we bought it from him without much of a fight. I suppose that we could have argued that he should have taken the container out of the Jeep to fill it but we didn't.

I would expect the fuel oil company to do the same.

Argo · 03-15-2002, 06:17 PM

Peaches En Regalia? Excellent choice. The first time I get to crank up Son of Mr. Green Genes in my Targa, I'm gonna just go ahead and bring a lawyer with me 'cause it'll be felonious speeding for sure .....

Argo
88 Targa

stormcrow · stormcrow's Garage

Well, if the car smells like diesel fuel there is concern - not just concern but great concern. As you know when you pump gas there is a sign posted that says not to breathe the fumes - carcinogens (I think I spelled it right) that cause cancer.

Same applies to diesel fuel - just a lower grade of gasoline. I would definitely make them buy the car and pay you for it, or purchase you another one.

EPA sure wouldn't want you driving a enviornmental hazard on the road.

Steve

RoninLB · 03-15-2002, 09:47 PM

Where I live if you spill 5 gal of gas you must call in HazMat. I saw once the whole fed and state package come after an oil delivery company that spilled about 10-15 gals on the street and it ran into a street drain and driver didn't report the spill. Over 10 hours of various agencies comming and going to check out the area.

sms1305 · 03-16-2002, 07:10 AM

There are ways to detect and measure the presence of toxic fumes in a closed space. There are plenty of nasty ones present in heating oil. Aside from the physical damage, the existence of residue (that you can even smell) is an obvious health hazard to you and your family. You should be saying, "You're putting the health of me and my family at risk over a few thousand dollars," not "my new car smell is gone." I agree that the car is totalled.

Clearly, the oil company was negligent and is in on the hook for your losses, but your insurance company should be advocating for you by repairing your damages and going after them for reimibursement. If you don't get some support, I would look for another insurance company and sue them both.

By the way, you might want to call the EPA to see if the spill was reported. There are serious penalties for failing to inform the appropriate federal and state agencies. That would certainly get the ball rolling.

Best of luck.

magilla · 03-16-2002, 09:18 AM

Dude, That sucks!!!!

At least it wasn't the Carrera!

Magilla

jstgermaine · jstgermaine's Garage

Finally, something on this board I know a little about...

I'm a Certified Economic Developer and have done a lot of contractual work with various nonprofit agencies throughout the country in an effort to bring companies into economically challegend areas...mostly rurla, but the laws are all pretty uniform when this stuff (toxins) come into play.

Not only is the company liable for the damage to your car but to your porperty as well.

Any measurable spill of toxic material (oil, gas, fuel oil, etc..) must be reported to the EPA and/or DEQ (Department of Enviromental Quality) so that the appropriate governmental entity can assess the danger if any to the local ecological system(s).

For example, an organization I worked with was in negotiations with Joe Farmer* (named changed to protect whomever) in an effort to purchase approximately 180 acres of farm land to develop into low income housing...of this land a 50' by 50' section was deemed unusable by the DEQ due to a diesel spill of 87 gallons 5 years prior.

Long story short, not saleable. Hope the oil company is looking to buy property at fair market value....

Hope this helps.

Don Wohlfarth · 03-17-2002, 08:40 AM

Doof, what a nightmare and it may not turn out very well.

I would think your main concern is to be made "whole" again.
#1 is the car will never be right again, they can clean it, wash it, soak it, whatever, and the fumes will be there.
There's so many ways to try and work this out it's almost pick your poison. Since you were at work your company may own the property and that could be a path to follow, or perhaps the company is a tenant so you would have to deal with the landlord. You've got the oil company as well. With a 100 gallon fuel spill the HAZ MAT/EPA should already to involved. You also have your own insurance company that you could deal with, your car is damaged and you want it fixed (but it can't be fixed).
To try and ease the pain remember that the day you drove that car off the lot it became a used car and was only worth X dollars, not what you paid for it. A year later it is a 1 year old used car so it is worth even less. Unfortunately that is all any insurance company is resposible for, to pay you the value of that car on the morning that you drove it to work.
It's immaterial how the car became totaled, it's still only worth X dollars.
The insurance company may decide that the car is not a total loss and want to clean it. In that case keep bring up diminished value at every opportunity with the idea of 2 identical cars sitting side by side but 1 has a strong smell of diesel fuel. If you were to buy the one with the odor how much less is it worth than the car that is perfect? Since that's a subjective question it gives you some wiggle room in case the car is not a total loss. The insurance company pays that diminished value as part of the claim in today's dollars. Needless to say insurance companies hate the concept of diminished value.
Good luck, keep us posted.

doofdog · doofdog's Garage

Guys thanks for all the input. Come Monday I will start making all the phone calls. I will definately keep everyone informed in case we end up loseing the car which would just suck seeing that we love it so much, A 993 however might ease the pain.

ill keep you informed. If after it gets back from the shop and the smell is still there how might that effect my claim if they already paid to have it fixed and the smell is still there? Very littl got inside So I think it will eventualy go away. Can the vapors alone ruin the whole interior? I am so confused as to which way I should go. I am calling the epa just to make sure they filed. I never saw anyone come down. They could be in trouble. Doof

Don Wohlfarth · 03-18-2002, 05:25 AM

Doof, I'm not sure I'd call the EPA or environmental services as you have a vested interest in the outcome of this accident.
The oil company and their insurance company are already up to their ears trying to get the problem corrected. This is a little too early in the game for you to become "difficult" by raising this issue.
Try and focus on getting your car repaired/replaced. You will probably be working with the oil company's insurance carrier. The adjuster you'll be working with has probably been down a similar road before. It is not in your best interest to try and beat him up at this point. Find out what they want you to do, that sort of thing and try to work with him.
The adjuster is dealing with EPA and HAZ MAT over public safety and unfortunatly you're a little farther down his list. If the adjuster gets an attitude he can show you what being difficult is all about. No need for that right now.