Slow going valve adj with Kirk tool

[Swoboda]

I'm doing my first valve adjustment and am using the Kirk tool.

The engine is in the car and the car is up on jack stands.

There's not much room in the engine bay or under the car, so it's slow going.

Does anyone have any suggestions to make it easier or tricks with the Kirk tool?

Thanks.

LS

[Catorce]

- pull plugs
- Don't be too concerned with the firing order. As long as the valve you are working on is resting on the base circle of the cam, you are fine to adjust it.
- never used the kirk tool. I exclusively use the Stomski tool with a digital gauge. Works awesome.
- Remove headers / heat exchangers

It's a pretty awful job even with the above.

[Canada Kev]

It's your first valve adjust so it's probably best to keep it as simple as possible.

Do NOT pull your plugs. The only reason for doing so is to make it easier to turn the engine over with the crank pulley nut. If you're having problems there, then squeeze the fan belt a little to put more pressure on the pulleys while wrenching the nut. There are some that suggest that bits of carbon deposits may loosen when the plug is removed and might possibly find their way into the valve opening and throw off your measurements. Meh, I don't know, but I suppose it's possible. Regardless, it's one more possible thing to make your project problematic, so I suggest not doing the plug removal until such time as you feel you need to change your plugs to new ones. And it might, however unlikely, add more complexity to the job if the carbon thing happens. If I'm changing plugs, I do it after the valve adjustment.

Firing order: for your first time, stick to the commonly accepted method of doing it in the firing order. Why make the process more complicated for a new and unfamiliar job? When people have problems with the job, often it's because they got messed up on the firing order or not starting at Z1. Pull your distributor cap and double check the it's pointing to cylinder #1 (follow the plug lead to confirm) when the crank pulley is lined up with the TDC mark on the crank case. You could be 360 degrees out and still be on that mark.

I use the regular old feeler gauge and can't comment on the other tools to make the job easier or more accurate. Sometimes I might check a difficult to access cylinder with the backside method.

I have never removed my heat exchangers or cat for a VA and I've got a later car with all the exhaust crap in there. Sure it's tight, but with a stubby screwdriver, it's not too bad. And you get to scare the neighbours with your swearing.


I'd recommend getting a valve adjust feeler tool if you don't have one. They're cheap and it's always good to have another method to do a job if for some reason your current tool is acting like a bear on a certain cylinder. Like I said regarding the backside method above, sometimes it's easier on certain areas to do something different. Don't get tied down to a certain way if others are better in your particular circumstance.

The other thing I found on my first VA was that getting the feeler gauge in there to check clearance was a real PITA. So I just loosened the adjuster - I was likely going to have to readjust them anyway, right? - and the gauge fit in like a dream. I still do that from time to time. It only takes a couple minutes to adjust a valve once you're in there. There's just twelve of them is all, so the time adds up.

As well, if you put the type of car you have in your signature area, we can give other tips on your specific model: heater blower and AC clearance issues.


Stick with it. It gets easier. Good luck!

[mike635]

One more thing to consider - last time I did mine, I checked each one with a feeler gauge before loosening the lock nut, several of them were right in spec so no adjustment necessary. Saves a lot of time if you get lucky.

[Drisump]

Like Kev I have never pulled the plugs or exhaust when doing the valves. And like Kev, I have a 3.2 and find access and "line of sight" to a few valves "difficult" but doable. My impression of the engine bay in earlier cars is that they have a lot more room and better sight lines. Kev also states that he finds insertion of the feeler gauge into the unloosened gap problematic....as do I so I loosen and adjust all valves. Cheers and good luck.

[boyt911sc]

Originally Posted by Catorce

- pull plugs
- Don't be too concerned with the firing order. As long as the valve you are working on is resting on the base circle of the cam, you are fine to adjust it.
- never used the kirk tool. I exclusively use the Stomski tool with a digital gauge. Works awesome.
- Remove headers / heat exchangers

It's a pretty awful job even with the above.

LS,

There are several methods and procedures to do a valve adjustment. And people would often give their own favorite method regardless it is ideal or not. Canada Kev gave you a well thought advice. However, the above suggestion is something I would not even consider doing. Ignoring the firing order for a newbie is looking for trouble.



Everyone of these valve adjustment tools has its own merit including the dial gauge. There is no substitute for hands on experience and using the feeler guide using the conventional method would be a good start.

When doing a valve adjustment with the engine installed, I recommend removing the engine tin installed at the sides of the engine for better access. And do the valve adjustment from below. Everything would be easy to access except for cylinder #4 with slightly less room to wiggle around.

Keep it simple until you get the knack of doing the job. It may feel intimidating because you have not done it yet. But once you done it, the next would be much easier. Make a note to guide you like:
Set pulley @ Z1
1-6-2-4-3-5
1-2-3 (left side or driver side)
4-5-6 (right side or passenger side)
Clockwise rotation
Place marker on the crank shaft pulley every 180°.
Etc.

If you have not drained the oil, just be aware that oil would be dripping to the floor when you remove the valve covers. Place something to prevent the spill. Keep us posted.

Tony

[tobluforu]

I have said this once, or twice and I will say it again... One of the best valve adjustment tools is one you kind of make yourself. Buy Feeler gauges that come in a group, slide the one out you need, tighten it down, now bend the tip just right. What's great is that the remaining feelers act like the handle and you can tighten down the feeler you need into any position. Learned this from a good friend that used to work on lots of vw's. I have tried the tools like above with the handle, my way is much better.

[Cevan]

My two cents, having done many valve adjustments over the years, but only one so far on my 911.

There was plenty of clearance to use plain old feeler gauges for the exhaust valves. For the intake, I used the backside method as I was again underneath the car where there is more room versus sticking my head in the engine bay.

[john walker's workshop]

The one with the loop in tony's pic is the best one money can buy, if you can find out where to buy it.

[mike635]

>The one with the loop in tony's pic is the best one money can buy, if you can find out where to buy it

I have one of these (PP part#PEL-LM-VALVE) from our host, unfortunately it looks like they're not currently available.

I bought the Kirk tool but had trouble with it (no doubt due to my inadequacies) The PEL-LM-VALVE was very easy to use and I like the old school method of setting the clearance based on feel.

my $0.02...

[Swoboda]

Ugh. I pulled the spark plugs....

I hope I haven't set myself up for problems. Has this caused issues for anyone else?

Thanks for the advice and support.

[Canada Kev]

Its not the end of the world. But if you need new plugs, when your adjustment is done, now is the opportune time to put them in. And if you end up with one valve a little noisy, maybe a little crap fell in the way of the valve. No worries. Wait until the engine cools, jack up the offending side, drop the valve cover (there will be hardly any oil) and re-adjust. You can even likely use the same gasket if you do it shortly after you think you mucked up the adjustment on one valve (hint: it'll probably be on the exhaust side if it was a carbon deposit).

Regarding the use of feeler gauges for an adjustment, I usually recommend them for new people. It's kinda like when you were young and learning to do something new. It wasn't always the easy way or the short cut way that you were taught. Learn the "correct" method (yes the other methods are "correct" but hear me out...) way and when you are comfortable doing that, then feel free to experiment to find a new and exciting, maybe quicker, maybe easier, maybe not, method. But get the basics down first.

When you've got that, then try the backside method. Or a dial gauge. Or the screwdriver with the pins on the side. Or...

I've done all that. But I still come back to the feeler gauge. It's cheap. It's accurate. And it's just as fast as other ways. Experience and familiarity are the best tools for that job.

Like my old ski coach said: First you get good. Then you get fast. It applies to most skills.

[Catorce]

Originally Posted by Swoboda

Ugh. I pulled the spark plugs....

I hope I haven't set myself up for problems. Has this caused issues for anyone else?

Thanks for the advice and support.

I recommend pulling the plugs. All these guys that claim they don't are overlooking an opportunity to inspect a wear item that also happens to tell you the health of your engine while you are in there doing scheduled maintenance. Also, it makes it easier to turn the motor over.

[john walker's workshop]

Always do the valve adjust before removing the plugs, as previously mentIoned. So what if it's easier to turn over with them out. Just a bit more effort overcoming the compression. If carbon falls on the exhaust seat, the valve will be tight when it gets blown out and that's not good. Better safe than sorry.

[Pazuzu]

Originally Posted by john walker's workshop

The one with the loop in tony's pic is the best one money can buy, if you can find out where to buy it.

I have one, and I never use it. i always go back to the dark handled SIR tool. The Island tool just seems bulky to me, and I snap the feeler gauge metal more often than I successfully bend it.

Of course, my engine has pretty good access with the sparse EFI setup and headers, so I can use the bolted feeler gauge many many times without bending it out of shape.

[dyerkes]

Mike,

Sent you a PM.

[Pazuzu]

I guess I should add, since posting that (30 minutes ago) I've had 3 people offer to buy it from me.

So, no one else should offer, consider it sold

[Swoboda]

Originally Posted by john walker's workshop

Always do the valve adjust before removing the plugs, as previously mentIoned. So what if it's easier to turn over with them out. Just a bit more effort overcoming the compression. If carbon falls on the exhaust seat, the valve will be tight when it gets blown out and that's not good. Better safe than sorry.

What should I do? I pulled the plugs before adjusting. Finish this adjustment, put it back together, run the car for a bit, then do another adjustment?

[boyt911sc]

Originally Posted by Swoboda

What should I do? I pulled the plugs before adjusting. Finish this adjustment, put it back together, run the car for a bit, then do another adjustment?

Swoboda,

Do the routine 1-6-2-4-3-5 valve adjustment using the procedure you are comfortable and your favorite tool/s. Until you get proficient and confident in your work, checking your valve adjustments multiple times is highly suggested. There will come a time that you could use the 'feel test' by moving the rockers up and down to confirm that there is a gap.

After you have checked your valve adjustment/s a few times and everything OK, time to put the valve covers back. Check your oil level (cold). There should be oil on the tip of the dip stick and check again when the engine is at operating temp. Oil level between the two markers.

I have used and tested different tools and procedures just to investigate what is the best way to do it. After all this said and done, I found out that there is no such thing as the 'best'. Some people prefer the backside, others don't. Some people adores the Kirk tool and others don't care. Some people hates the factory style feeler gauge, and I don't. Decide what you feel comfortable doing and go for it.

Tony