Valve adjustment surprise - Loctite 574 around valve springs

MrScott · 08:50 AM

Took the valve covers off my "new" engine for the first time and found this:

Shot of the #5 rocker:

Shot of the driver's side:

This thread suggests it's loctite 574: Plastic Pieces in My Engine??

It's formed into loose rings (which I can move) around my valve springs.
Should I remove it?
Should I be worried?

T77911S · 11-16-2011, 09:04 AM

niiiice.
i would ask if it was a motormeister engine but i dont think one of theirs would last long enough to get that much dirt on the engine.

70SC · 70SC's Garage

WTF

WHY

4sd911 · 11-16-2011, 09:07 AM

That's normal, just maybe the builder used a little to much but thats how it looks when there are built. If any falls off it would go to the return side of the oil pump and will go through the oil filter before the oil is returned to the oil galleys.

MrScott · 11-16-2011, 09:14 AM

So I got two "it's bad"'s and one "it's normal"

Should I remove the goop?
Is there anything else I should check for while I'm in there?

Engine was rebuilt (before I got it) by a local Pelican who my mechanic said "knew his stuff" after speaking with him. I've been running with it for a year, seems strong.

leadrsa729 · 11-16-2011, 09:33 AM

I had the same in my rebuilt engine as well. I had separate issues though that required me to basically do a top end rebuild myself. When I put it back together I definitely used less Loctite than the previous builder because I don't see near as much "spill over" as before.

Before I redid the top end I was actually getting the Loctite bits in my oil screen at the bottom of the case. I ran it that way for a few hundred miles, but I don't think it ever did any real damage. I would leave it as is, especially considering you've been running it that way for over a year now anyway. That Loctite smooshed itself around the valves as soon as the heads were torqued down, so it's been that way since it was rebuilt. My 2 cents.

MrScott · 11-16-2011, 10:17 AM

So it's spillover from sealant between the cam housing and the heads, got it. Thanks guys.

I also notice that I can move the unloaded rocker side to side, coincidentally in the same area I'm seeing some oil seep between the cam tower and the head. I assume some wiggle is normal but is there an acceptable range and how to measure it? Search didn't turn up much info.

MBruns · 11-16-2011, 10:29 AM

Someone used WAY to much and what you see is the "squeeze out" that has cured, it is like concrete and wont go anywhere if left alone.

Mike Bruns JBRacing.com

MrScott · 11-16-2011, 10:32 AM

Hmm, what I have is soft and spongy and the rings (of orange goop) aren't stuck to anything -- I can move them around with a pick...

lupin..the..3rd · 11-16-2011, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4sd911

That's normal, just maybe the builder used a little to much but thats how it looks when there are built. If any falls off it would go to the return side of the oil pump and will go through the oil filter before the oil is returned to the oil galleys.

i would think that chunks that large wouldn't make it into the oil pump. they'd get trapped against the pickup screen.

Bob Kontak · Bob Kontak's Garage

Side to side is ok for the rocker. I have not heard of a side to side tolerance but have never really looked. I do have a tech spec book and I will scan it but if you look at your pic wouldn't the castings have to wear to allow excessive side to side movement?

There are o-rings you can buy for the ends of the rocker shafts to seal off oil seepage. I use them.

Edit: Jeez - as soon as I think I know what I am talking about..........

Rocker arm end play / Valve noise.

I will check spec book now and post if I find anything.

Yep - "Axial play" minimum is 1/10 of a mm to 0.350 mm. Wear limit is 0.5mm. That's out of my SC spec book.

MBruns · 11-16-2011, 11:11 AM

If the 574 is still soft it must be a fresh engine, I would get it out of there and do a few short cycle oil and filter services to be sure, the squeeze out is not doing anything for you its just excess, unlike bath tub caulk

Mike Bruns

CaptainCalf · 11-16-2011, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrScott

Hmm, what I have is soft and spongy and the rings (of orange goop) aren't stuck to anything -- I can move them around with a pick...

That 574 is great stuff, but it can be a problem if used incorrectly. One nice thing about it is that it wont cure while in contact with air, so you never have to rush if you put it on a gasket to get it sealed up fast before it drys, but that's a bad thing too as you have seen if someone uses too much it will squeeze out an go where ever it wants.

The reason you're seeing orange goop and it's not hard is cuz it's still getting exposed to air. If you want to do a little test put a blob in a cup of oil and let it sit in there for a while then take it out and you should see that it's hardened like concrete like Big Mike described, but put a blob on your workbench exposed to air and it will be orange goop for weeks

MrScott · 11-16-2011, 12:30 PM

I've had the engine about a year and 15K miles, it was rebuilt shortly before I bought it.

Anaerobic sealant, cool. Alright, it came out in neat rings around the exhaust valves with a pick but I'm going to have a heck of a time reaching it on the intake valves. I'd rather not disturb it than break it up into little pieces -- sound reasonable?

Re: axial play, I assume that's measured between the rocker and the housing; I'll try to stick a feeler gauge in there and get a reading.

Thanks all, sorry for the delayed responses, I'm checking between adjusting valves which by the way is going fine. I'm using the standard method and the backside method to verify.

Bob Kontak · Bob Kontak's Garage

Here are definitions - I had to look it up.

axial - of or relating to or resembling an axis of rotation

Axis - A straight line about which a body or geometric object rotates or may be conceived to rotate.

lindy 911 · lindy 911's Garage

I'm not so sure what your seeing isn't orange RTV silicone. I used 574 on my SC rebuild and the excess squeeze out has turned almost white and fairly hard in twelve months time. It did stay soft for about three months and then started to change. I have seen a couple of wrenches who were "in-the-know" who use RTV. In my opinion, which in a large part was developed with help from this forum, silicone is a big no-no when combined with a P-car. If what you pull out feels rubbery and soft, I bet you it's RTV.

By the way; your first photo is #3 not #5. Just saying in case you think it's #5 when adjusting the valves. 1-2-3 are drivers side, 4-5-6 passenger side.

Bob Kontak · Bob Kontak's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by lindy 911

I have seen a couple of wrenches who were "in-the-know" who use RTV. In my opinion, which in a large part was developed with help from this forum, silicone is a big no-no when combined with a P-car. If what you pull out feels rubbery and soft, I bet you it's RTV.

Any suggestions for the OP?

MrScott · 01:56 PM

It's side to side play I'm talking about, the rocker sliding left/right on the shaft.

I kept some of the sealant submersed for the last half hour, still rubbery.

Right, I mean't #3, not #5 -- scared me for a second!

Flat6pac · 11-16-2011, 02:48 PM

I dont believe its 574, looks like gasket maker Permatex.
Bruce

Bob Kontak · Bob Kontak's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrScott

It's side to side play I'm talking about, the rocker sliding left/right on the shaft.

Correct - Axial movement - along the axis which is the centerline of the rocker shaft. I think radial movement is sloppiness in the bore.

Again - stolen from Google:

RADIAL PLAY is the maximum displacement that one bearing ring can be displaced relative to the other ring in a direction perpendicular to the axis of rotation of the bearing.

AXIAL PLAY, or end play, is the maximum relative displacement of the bearing rings, in a direction parallel to the axis of rotation.

Edit - it has to do with bearings but you get the idea.