Another vendor horror story!!

75eleven · 03-29-2002, 04:18 PM

I was curious to see if anyone else has had problems with PAP Parts in Georgia. I contacted them about buying a set of used piston and cylinders from a 1981-83 911. The ones with 9.3 compression. They told me they had a set from a 1981 for 500.00. So I ordered them. When I received them they looked in pretty good shape. The problem was I never saw a set of the higher compression pistons before and wasnt aware that they sent me the same p/c s I had in my 1979.untill I took the engine down. When I contacted them they told me that they would work just fine. I agreed, but these are not what I ordered. After about week of going back and forth he finally agreed to exchange them for the correct ones. I sent them back to him and waited about a month and heard nothing. I finally get him to answere an email and he tell me he sent the right set to me. A couple days later I received another set of p/c s. Upon my greater disappointment he sends me a box of cylinders with 3 different bore sizes and a set of 3.2 pistons with 23 mm wrist pins. NO Way were these going to work. I contacted him again and he tell me to take it up with his yard man he pulled the order. So I get him on the phone. I say you guys claim 25 years experience , 22 more years than me and even I know these will not work. I say I am sending these back and want a refund. I send them back and wait another month, No responce. to several attempts for him to contact me. Now furious, I file a complaint with BBB. After 6 weeks I get a letter from them saying he has not responded to them. He has several other complaints unresolved also. I then contact Consumer affairs, with no help. I contacted the attorney general of Georgia with no help. I called my credit card co and they said because of the length of time there is nothing they can do. Other then taking him to court, in which I would have to go to Georgia or getting an attorney which would cost me more than 500.00 does anyone have any suggestions to get my money back or is he just going to be able to keep my money and I can do nothing. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks in advance

tight as a bull's ass · tight as a bull's ass's Garage

sorry to hear about your ordeal with this company

so you shipped back the parts and didnt get a refund? wow!

bottom line, with a local vendor, you can show up in person and take care of business.

78targa · 78targa's Garage

Emmanuel,

He did say who it was: PAP parts in Georgia. Don't they have alot of eBay auctions?

75eleven. Thanks for passing on the information. Factual without too much ranting. Maybe someone on this board lives close enough to their business to make a personal visit for you?!?

Wayne 962 · Wayne 962's Garage

Sounds fishy on the credit card, mine was able to do a chargeback from about six months ago. Yell at the card company again, and ask to speak to a supervisor (always works for me)...

-Wayne

Early_S_Man · 04:59 PM

Interstate mail fraud is not the answer!

First rule ... you DON'T go DOWN the organization level to resolve problems!

It may not be too late, but there is no point in loosing your temper, and it sounds like you already did that at least once with the lower level contacts! Spend some time on the phone with one or more managers, and follow up with written correspondence to the person(s) you spoke to ... every two weeks!

BTW, I have done business with PAP for over seven years and no problems at all!

Also ... credit card companies want written complaints, and include a timeline beginning with the day of the first phone order, and copies of all invoices and correspondence!

MBAtarga · 03-29-2002, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by les paul guy
bottom line, with a local vendor, you can show up in person and take care of business.

PAP is located less than an hour away from me. I have my own story about my first (and last) visit to them. If you were local and took a trip there, you'd probably not spend any money.

They described an SC decklid over the phone as in pretty good shape - just needs some minor retouch before paint. They say about $250, but make an offer. I take the trip one afternoon from work, thinking maybe they'll take $150-175. The lid had rust on the bottom edge and most underside seams. I told them it wasn't worth $20 to me. They acted like it was no big deal - they'd find someone to buy it off ebay.

Zeke · 03-29-2002, 06:34 PM

I couldn't find a 911 Boge front strut anywhere for about a month. Got ahold of PAP and they had one. Shipped it out right away for a good price. I haven't had the car on the alignment rack yet though. Salvage yards are scary.

LeeH · 11:39 AM

You can fill out the Rennlist supplier survey. Currently they don't have enough data for PAP to post results.

http://www.rennlist.com/vendorsurvey/venindex.htm

I wonder why only 90% of survey respondents would recommend Pelican to their friends? I've only placed one order from Pelican and short of getting a Large T shirt when I ordered an X-Large everything was OK.

Joeaksa · 03-29-2002, 07:54 PM

The internet and forums like this one and Rennlist will be the death of suppliers who treat their customers like doggy caca! Word spreads fast and once it gets around they will be blacklisted and die a slow death, which many of them deserve.

When my friend who was in the process of a major upgrade of his 911 passed away in January, his widow and I got together and contacted all the suppliers where he had purchased almost $10k in parts. All of the parts were new in the box and with the receipts. Only two, one a shock supplier in CA and the other a major catalog parts company, refused to work with us at all. Every other company accepted the parts in return with no restocking fee. Some wanted to see the death certificate, others trusted us.

The shock supplier laughed on the phone at us, saying that it was not his fault that a person died and told me he did not care, that it was our problem now. Needless to say I will not buy shox from this company ever again... damm, I hate it when my fingers slip on the keyboard and miss-spell a word!@

I will never buy anything from these two companies again. Its not a big loss for them but I will never forget it and will never recommend their products either. Those who worked with us will have my gratitude as well as my business forever. Pelican, Vertex and EuroProducts all bent over backwards to help, so I will give them a pat on the back for their help. Steve Weiner was also excellent with his support. There are some excellent people out there and we need to support those who help us and who treat their customers well!

Joe

PS if your credit card company is playing games like this, switch to someone who wants your business. They do not or they would back you up when needed!

Joe Bob · Joe Bob's Garage

OK....Joe....fess up. Who are the companies that told you to pound sand?

Joeaksa · 03-30-2002, 08:01 AM

Mike,

One is a seller of shocks in San Diego... reread my posting and you will get a hint of the name and the other is a catalog seller with the initials of PP... The parts guys were nice but stood their ground, but the shock sales manager was an a$$ and it was not needed in this situation!

As far as I am going but you can figure it out! Have not gotten the package for you yet but should come next week!

Joe

john walker's workshop · 03-30-2002, 08:47 AM

i called PAP for a boge strut with the wide caliper bolt spacing. they said they had one and i asked to have it shipped overnight. 2 days, no strut. called again and it wasn't off the car yet. come on guys, i have a customer car down. sure, we'll get right on it. 2 more days, nothing. i called again and cancelled, because i located one elsewhere. the guy gets indignant and says he hates dealing with customers like me. hell, he could have told me straight up that it would be a week before he got around to pulling the part. guess they're off my call list.

GIBSON · GIBSON's Garage

I bid on a dutch auction PAP runs on a set of hot air tubes for 911 engines, fan shroud and heater-flapper box lines. A good price for the 4 pieces. Well, a few minutes after the auction ended I called with my credit card number and they said they would ship things out that day. 10 days later I called and they had no idea who I was or any idea about the auction. No record of the sale in the computer etc. I had been waiting to install these things on the new motor but finally gave up and installed the old ones.
Seems like rather poor customer service. I won't be dealing with them again.

Bruce Herrmann

83SC in PA · 03-30-2002, 10:58 AM

I've dealt with PAP with little to no problems. Sometimes slow to respond and I have also only bought new parts from them.

Another supplier to watch out for is Mercantile Europarts out of Miami. They sent me a damaged Mercedes 4.5 cylinder head, had me file a claim with UPS which UPS paid to them, but they haven't refunded my money. So basically they got paid twice for the same item and they even got the part back. Needless to say, I'm pretty steamed right now. The email address they provided is no longer valid and they don't return phone or fax message. I see they are still active on Ebay though(MERCEDES991). I guess I'll have to call their local sheriff to pay them a visit. I think someone else on this board has had success with this approach.

Joeaksa · 03-30-2002, 11:12 AM

83SC,

I did it with a jerk who was selling bad computer parts through Ebay. Also contacted the people who had left negative feedback and we ganged up on him.

He ignored my emails then I contacted the local police dept. They connected me to a cop who had just finished buying most of his Christmas presents on the internet. He was torqued and said that anyone playing games like this was not going to live in his area. After telling him the story and emailing him proof, they sent a black and white car to his house every two days to "discuss life" with the kid.

Turns out that it was a college age kid selling stuff that he was upgrading on his personal computer. Some of it worked, most did not. His Mother had enough of it after the third visit and he paid me and 8 other people back that he had scammed on the net within a few days.

Contact the police in the town where the seller is doing business, and ask for someone involved in internet crime. Present the information in a organized manner and it should work. The local cops do not want their kind in their backyard either! You are lucky as you have proof that UPS paid them, and hope you have the waybill number showing that they received the cylinder head back. When they cannot produce a canceled check they are sunk.

Joe

hilandscott · hilandscott's Garage

I've relied on PAP for parts and even to haul a roller to Florida for a rebuild with no problems. The minor things I deal with are arrangements taking longer than promised. It can also be tough to talk with Joe directly.

I have only known Joe Cogbill for a year or so now, the owner/operator of PAP, but I have friends who have worked with him for years. He's reputed to be an experienced racer/mechanic and good ol' boy (in the better sense of the phrase). However, his company is experiencing growing pains and as a result it's not the best organized. His staff seem to be doing the best they can to keep up with things. In the last two months they have revamped their web site and upgraded the phone and computer system.

My advice: be polite but persistent and get Joe himself on the phone. Know what you want (your money back or the parts, as long as he is sure he can deliver).

By the way, the credit card should be able to handle dispute without any problems, even now. Also, I decided to go with a set of new JE 9.7:1 pistons from ABS for $800, as I have been in contact with many folks with headaches trying to save money on used pistons. The JE arrived in perfect shape and went in with no hassles...

Good luck.

Wayne 962 · Wayne 962's Garage

It's true and unfortunate that the used Porsche part wrecking yards are becoming a thing of the past. Other than Parts Heaven, and PAP, there aren't too many large sources out there.

Aase was the biggest and the best, and all of hit stuff is gone to other places. There is a huge Porsche yard somewhere in downtown LA, but I've never been there, and the guy doesn't advertise either... Somewhere off of Ameda or Alimeda? I can't remember...

-Wayne

Joeaksa · 03-30-2002, 12:02 PM

Wayne,

Another salvage yard with 911's in their lot is South of Oklahoma City on hiway 35. Never stopped there but have seen them sell things on Ebay and such.

Joe

alan911 · 03-30-2002, 12:49 PM

Hey Wayne, There was a Porshce dismantler place in Stanton, in Orange County called Best Deal Inc. Don't know if they are still there. I've been to the one in LA a few years back. Its awsome. It was a religious experience just walkin around in there. He probably gets all the Insurance biz in so Cal. Doesn't need to advertise I guess.

Wayne 962 · Wayne 962's Garage

Best Deal is out of business as well...

They might have been bought by somone else, but I'm not 100% sure...

-Wayne