Drivers Ed in Cabriolet?

[vesnyder]

Considering participating in a Driver's Ed course this summer and curently have a Cabriolet. I am pretty sure I would have to install a roll bar to participate? I am considering one just to better hone my skills and understanding of the car. Is it worth it - or should I just work on my skills on the local twisty freeway entrance ramps? How about AutoX? Will I need a roll bar? Which is better to get a handle on the limits of the car?

[Ted Stringer]

Be careful of the entrance ramps. Ask me how I know.

[Formerly Steve Wilkinson]

Yes, you almost certainly will need a rollbar, and DAS makes an excellent bolt-in model. (I have one in our SC coupe.) The beauty of DE versus the freeway on-ramp are that there are a thousand things you can do, a thousand mistakes you can make, that will have no unfortunate consequences, while trying them on a road will leave you with body damage at the least. Most people would think the opposite, but a racetrack is the safest place to drive fast. Virtually nothing to hit, everybody's going in the same direction, everybody's paying attention, nobody will be doing anything wildly unexpected, etc. etc. etc.

I say this having just come back from a Lime Rock DE yesterday, and I didn't even drive: let my 23-year-old daughter have the car to herself, knowing that she wasn't in the slightest danger. At least not compared to the proverbial trip there and back...

Stephan

[spinner]

Vance,

It is a requirement for all cabs/convertibles to have rollbars to participate in all PCA track events for safety reasons. The odds of a rollover is quite small but it only takes one. If you want to explore limits of the car and yourself, do all of us a favor and attempt that at a DE event with an instructor. A rollbar is easy to install in a Cab and you can get one used pretty cheap. I think it looks quite cool.
If you don't want to put in a rollbar just yet, do some autox. It's cheaper too.

Have fun.

Paul
87 Carrera

[dtfastbear]

Vance,

If you want to learn car control, autocrossing is the place to start. DE events (held on a track) are great at teaching you consitency and smoothness and how to APPROACH the limits of your car, but these events are NOT the place to learn the basics of car control. When you approach the limits of your car at high speeds you are walking a VERY thin line, and stepping over it can have some pretty ugly consequences.

At an autocross, the turns are tighter and the speeds lower and there is rarely anything within a reasonable distance for you to hit if you slide off course. It it the perfect environment for you to drive up to and over the limits of the car's adhesion. The only effective way for you to explore the limits of the car is to be able to exceed them occasionally, and that is what autocrossing is all about. It is one of the few places that you can really drive ten tenths and not have to worry about hurting yourself, your car or others.

My recommendation to anyone who wants to learn how to drive their car better is to do at least several autocrosses before getting out on a track. At an autocross, you can purposely lift in the middle of a corner and see what happens. You DON'T want to learn the effects of trailing throttle oversteer in turn 2 at Sears Point, for instance. Much better to learn these car dynamics in a parking lot.

I've said it before and I'll say it again - if you want to learn car control, autocrossing trumps the track any day.

My two cents.

Dean

PS - As an added bonus, you don't need a rollbar to autocross.

[dtfastbear]

Vance,

If you want to learn car control, autocrossing is the place to start. DE events (held on a track) are great at teaching you consitency and smoothness and how to APPROACH the limits of your car, but these events are NOT the place to learn the basics of car control. When you approach the limits of your car at high speeds you are walking a VERY thin line, and stepping over it can have some pretty ugly consequences.

At an autocross, the turns are tighter and the speeds lower and there is rarely anything within a reasonable distance for you to hit if you slide off course. It it the perfect environment for you to drive up to and over the limits of the car's adhesion. The only effective way for you to explore the limits of the car is to be able to exceed them occasionally, and that is what autocrossing is all about. It is one of the few places that you can really drive ten tenths and not have to worry about hurting yourself, your car or others.

My recommendation to anyone who wants to learn how to drive their car better is to do at least several autocrosses before getting out on a track. At an autocross, you can purposely lift in the middle of a corner and see what happens. You DON'T want to learn the effects of trailing throttle oversteer in turn 2 at Sears Point, for instance. Much better to learn these car dynamics in a parking lot.

I've said it before and I'll say it again - if you want to learn car control, autocrossing trumps the track any day.

My two cents.

Dean

PS - As an added bonus, you don't need a rollbar to autocross.

[lukeh]

I just signed up for my first DE event through my local PCA group and I also have a cab. I was told by the organizer that you do not need a rollbar to run in group I (novices). There are three run groups. It also says the same thing on the sign up sheet I had to fill out. If you want to run in a faster run group you would then need a rollbar. Seeing as how this is your first DE and would be in group I anyway, I don't see the need to get the rollbar at this time. However, if you love it and want to move up into the faster run group, then pay the money for the rollbar. I would call your local organizer to confirm this.

[piedogger]

Just went to my first DE over the weekend, I to have a cab. It must depend on regions because I needed a rollbar to run. I got mine from RACER ACC. in San Diego for $250.00. #(619)258-1746 this bar reguires drilling to mount as to where the DAS I believe does not but is much more mula.

As far as worth it goes for me it was a blast I just finished filling out and sending in my app. for the next one. The instructors really know what your car can do. I was going flat out into corners I probably would have slowed down for.

[masraum]

I believe I have heard that it depends on your region. Another thought is that not every organisation requires roll bars. I know there are many organisations that I wouldn't want to attend, but some like Todd Serota's Traquest events don't(I'm pretty sure) require a roll bar. Granted he's on the west coast, but there may be someone in your area that has good well run track events and wouldn't require a roll bar.

[vesnyder]

Tremendous help guys, thanks a lot. I have yet to see a Cab with the roll bar but hopefully I will see one this summer. and get a better handle on pricing and looks.

[Mike Feinstein]

FWIW.....Tracquest DE's do not require rollbars in cabs. Looser rules. I did my first DE with them in January at Road Atlanta. Since I signed up for the slow group I felt OK about it. Having done it once, I would not even think about moving up without one. Just not excited about cutting up my interior (yes, drilling IS necessary in my cab even with the DAS bar). You may want to check their website for schedule...www.tracquest.com.'

Have fun.

[orbmedia]

A few thoughts. PCA is coming up with a set of national DE rules so the idea of region specificity will be disappearing soon. I think rollbars in cabs will be one universal rule.

[piedogger]

I actually found out about RACER ACC. rollbars by seeing a 83 cab with one installed on a thread here. Do a search it has a bunch of pictures.

[widebody911]

But if the track they're running on requires them, then that trumps Todd's (rhymes with Odd) rules. For instance, Thunderhill, which is an SCCA-owned track, requires them.

Originally posted by Mike Feinstein
FWIW.....Tracquest DE's do not require rollbars in cabs.

[vesnyder]

Anybody out there w/ photos of Cab w/ rollbar?