Is Bruce Anderson on crack?

[puzurinshushinak]

In the May 2001 issue of "Excellence", Anderson values 2.4L 911Ses at $10,528 in poor condition, $11,971 for good, and $16,025 for excellent. In defending these valuations, he notes: "Recently, we received five reports of 911S models that were purchased for prices ranging between $8,000 and $10,000, with two more cars offered for under $12,000. One car was sold by the original owner and most of them sound like solid examples."

Has anyone seen prices like these? From my (very limited) experience, nice Ses go in the mid 20s.


For those of you who do not think that Anderson is a crackhead, I will happily pay you a 15% finder's fee if you can locate one of those elusive sub-$10k Ses for me. I'm looking for a weekend driver, not a show car, so cosmetics aren't terribly important. As long as it's got solid mechanicals and no rust, I'd be interested.

[tight as a bull's ass]

who's Bruce Anderson?

[HawgRyder]

Sorry...just picked up my '69S for less than 10K (Canadian yet)...so I guess that works out to about $1.97 us ?
Bob

[Joe Bob]

Ask him yourself.....Junior....
http://www.911handbook.com/

http://209.235.46.224/pcd/generalinfo/bruce911.htm

[MarkY]

For someone that has been here all of 3 post, you sure come across as an arrogant SOB calling Bruce Anderson a crackhead.

Get lost punk, we don't need your type here.

[island911]

Hmmm. . .doesn't come across *that* arrogant to me.
Sounds like a reasonable question with a little *pop* added to get peoples attention.
I've heard a lot of whining about the numbers BA/ Excellence puts out. They no doubt tyr to infulence the market downward to allow more to "buy-in" and have $ left over to buy parts from advertisers. So what?
There are regional market fluxuations and other variables, so much so that all a buyer really should do is look and decide.

[rcwaldo]

Again, with cars of this age, its hard to put an actual value on it. At the end of the day, an older car is worth only what a buyer is willing to pay for it, at that particular moment.

I have looked at many cars and thought that is a great deal, then would go home and think about it a little and realize its not that great of a deal. I have fallen into that emotional state of mind many many times.

In my quest for a 993, I was at a Porsche dealer(newport imports) a few weeks ago and the sales guy that I was talking to mentioned that he just sold a VERY original 67S that he has owned since 1968. A guy had been bugging him to sell for four years. Just wanting a number (price). This sales guy finally blurted out a number of $50k, he sold the car that day!

I know this is another "story", but that is what he told me.


I wonder if that new owner ever realized that he had been very emotional for a long time about that particular car?

I guess there are really two ways to put a value on something, especially something old and rare.

Chris

[pwd72s]

Originally posted by island911
Hmmm. . .doesn't come across *that* arrogant to me.
Sounds like a reasonable question with a little *pop* added to get peoples attention.
I've heard a lot of whining about the numbers BA/ Excellence puts out. They no doubt tyr to infulence the market downward to allow more to "buy-in" and have $ left over to buy parts from advertisers. So what?
There are regional market fluxuations and other variables, so much so that all a buyer really should do is look and decide.

Island? "Other variables" ? Let's face it, the newest "early 911S" is 1973. Pushing 30. So the "other variables" are most likely condition, condition, condition. But, yes...count me firmly in the camp of those who think Bruce is lowballing these cars. And, as an aside? I don't think Bruce smokes much of anything these days...

[Saffs]

We hear of several early S models changing hands for considerable sums. I really don't know how BA seems unaware of this, and unreflective of it in his price guide. Just one $30k+ sell has got to knock his price range average up.
Maybe it is the crack....;-

[Randy W]

To paraphrase from an earlier posting of mine on this subject of 911S values and BA:

According to Bruce Anderson's grading scale, there are very few truly "excellent" early 911s in existence. "90% perfect with like new paint" early 911Ss may on rare occasion sell at his reported values, but I certainly don't see them. I know a few people who would like to find even one of these.

"Beyond excellent" original paint low mileage (<50K) 911S cars sell for 35 to 45K, when they come up (about once or twice a year). The truly "excellent" 2.4S with factory quality paint jobs sell for over 20K regularly. I have no doubt that Bruce's figures for the later cars are pretty accurate - after all, they made a bunch of these and not many have had to be repainted. However, I have a feeling Bruce does not actually get a chance to see a majority of the early 911s advertised as "excellent" that he uses for determining his figures. They could very likely be only "good" in the flesh. although they sell as "excellent". Even "good" early 911s are getting hard to find.

[epbrown]

I'd say that BA is using a different scale than most people think, with concourse-winning type cars not on the scale. Regularly he corresponds with people that pay thousands more than he says the car was worth and agrees with the price they paid. It seems to me that his "poor" is a ratty but drivable car, and his "excellent" is a nice driver, leaving off restoration candidates and top-condition cars. Old Cars Price Guide is a much more accurate gauge anyway, imo. I don't get why Excellence is frequently discussed as if it's the only available scale.

Emanuel

[kepperly]

I,ve read alot of Bruces articles and books and I always thought
he erred on the high side when I read "Excellence" but thats
along way from labeling him a "crack head". It seems younger
males have a propensity to use slander instead of respect for
someone that has given as many years as Bruce to the Porsche
marque. Bruce I hope you see this post, seems like a very good
case for a Slander suit!!
learn for yourself if you doubt you elders, thats the expensive
way!!!

[gator70]

I think Bruce Andersons correct!

Name me five high dollar 911"s" sales, in which the new owner spent the time to contact Bruce Anderson?

He goes by what the readership tells him.

I personally enjoy how he rates these cars. He helps me buy them for his prices and I have had those opportunities of late.

I have one for sale now for $11,000.00. Any takers?

I sold one in June for $ 9,000.00 and one in December of 2000 for $ 6,500.00.

What does it take to restore one of these car, 25K or more?

[puzurinshushinak]

Gator, tell us about the $11k car you have for sale.

epbrown, how does Old Cars Price Guide value the early S?

[Randy W]

Gator, I'll do better than that. Here are high sales reported by Bruce Anderson himself in the pages of Excellence Magazine issues featuring Early 911 Market Updates:

#110 1972 911E $23,000
#101 1967 911S $32,000 and 1972 911S $20,000

Two more reported by BA in Excellence:

#103 1973 911S $20,000
#102 1972 911S $20,000 and 1973 911T $33,000

Please post complete details (structural integrity, paint condition, and motor leak down results) and photos of exterior, interior and motor bay of the $11,000 911 you have for sale.

[epbrown]

$5,600 for a basketcase needing full restoration, $28,000 for a concourse-winning example or fully restored car.

Btw, speaking of magazine writers, I finally found a copy of the March Porsche & 911 World and Keith Seume has some good comments on rising Porsche values, mentioning the 911S in particular.

Emanuel

[cegerer]

Look through the actual reader reports sent to BA. There are many, many examples of early 911's where the sales price was higher than BA's 'excellent'. BA usually describes these cars as 'Beyond Excellent' and a good value at the price paid. So I agree with EP, BA's scale is slightly different then most of our's.

Also, I wonder if he's figured in the Viper Green 72S that sold for $34k a few weeks ago? Oh wait, that was too nice of a car, we can't possibly count that one! Really though, I think all of these so-called 'Beyond Excellent' cars should be factored into the averages, or BA needs to add a 'Beyond Excellent' category! -- Curt

[pwd72s]

The Viper Green one that got away...still in your mind, right Curt? Hey, you've got a very nice car! Even if it is a Targa...

[cegerer]

Oh well, don't have room for 2 fun cars right now anyway. That will change by next year! -- Curt

P.S. Took the first 2002 drive yesterday with the top off. Man I love that Targa. Sun and wind in the face. And the sound, oh the sound ....

[Joe Bob]

Just posted on Rennlist....a smog model, though.

For Sale: #9116201062

1976 Porsche 911S
California car with no rust…9 months in Kentucky now.
57,215 original miles
2nd owner for 6 years now
4 year old dark metallic green/tan interior
No sunroof and no power windows or A/C
Car is all stock…still thermal reactors and 5 blade fan.
Most all window seals are newer
Nice stock 15"x 6" wheels
New fuel pump and starter
New floor pedal, shifter and coupler bushings
Front seats re-upholstered
Recent valve adjustment
Fresh oil, plugs, fuel filter

Needs:
Battery
Carpet
Fuel distributor reseal or rebuild
Radio…has a older one that doesn't work

First $6,500 takes it.
I have over $10,000 in this car and the last low value on these cars from
Excellence was around $8,200 and for a good example was $12,000…going from
memory.

I have some pictures I can send.
I am on the digest so if interested or any other questions please e-mail me
directly at Kycarguy64@aol.com
Car is located in North East Kentucky near Ohio and W.V.