Door stay question

[aualexa2]

Hi guys,

My driver's side door stay has been making a clunking sound when I open and close the door. I thought it was a problem where the door stay is attached to the chassis because the pin that holds it in place was jerry-rigged with a replacement pin and a screw. Today, I removed the replacement pin. I left the door stay attached to the door. I noticed that the door stay has a lot of up and down play. I can move it up and down about an inch each way. Is that normal? The screws attaching the door stay to the door are secure and I do not believe the sheet metal is weak at the door stay. It seems like the up and down movement is all from the actual door stay mechanism. I've ordered a new one (including the reinforcement plate), but I was just wondering if it might be the door stay mechanism that was making the noise...not the attachment to the body of the car.

Thanks for any feedback!

[kidrock]

there are quite a few threads on this. If I understand correctly, your "jerry-rigged" door stay may actually be a recommended fix. The pin for a "clunky" stay is replaced with a 8mm screw and nylock nut. The nut should be carefully tightened until the "clunk" or "click" disappears.

At least, that's the way I've understood it. Hopefully one of the experts will confirm that I may actually be right on this one.

[Wiese]

I believe the bolt has to be an M6 with a nyloc nut. Your door stays themselves may need replacing as well (also a good idea to install the door stay reinforcement kit at that time).

[KevinP73]

As you describe it there's nothing wrong with your door stay or "travel limiter" as it's sometimes called. With the roll pin removed (or the bolt and nut in your case) there should be plenty of play in the arm. Are you sure that the door structure hasn't failed? It's hard to see without a little mirror but check where the travel limiter bolts to the door. Make sure the sheet metal hasn't torn loose. It's possible that the door has failed.

[aualexa2]

kidrock: You're right. There is a commonly described fix using a 6mm screw and nylock nut. The repair on my door was far from this method! ;-) Someone put an almost one and a half inch roll pin in with a screw threaded through it and a nut at the end. I think the screw was there to keep the pin from sliding all the way up or down and coming out.

Wiese and Kevin: I'll replace the old door stay and take a closer look at the door while I'm in there. I'll also have a 6mm screw and nylock on hand in case they are needed.

Thanks for your help.

Alex

[aualexa2]

Good news - no damage to the sheet metal. Waiting for the new door stay and reinforcement kit and then I'll install it and use the 6Mx20 screw and nylock.

[bigel]

Originally Posted by aualexa2

Good news - no damage to the sheet metal. Waiting for the new door stay and reinforcement kit and then I'll install it and use the 6Mx20 screw and nylock.

No such luck for me...

[porterdog]

Steve, my door was at least 57% more screwed up than yours is and some patient fitting of the reinforcement plates sold by our host took car of it completely.

[bigel]

Originally Posted by porterdog

Steve, my door was at least 57% more screwed up than yours is and some patient fitting of the reinforcement plates sold by our host took car of it completely.

Really, how did you attach the reinforcement plate to the door? In my case the door stay hadn't pulled through the door, but was no longer attached. The problem there is the housing of the stay is just floating around inside the door...still serves the purpose of preventing the door from swinging out wildly, but loose and rattles around otherwise.

Did you somehow 'bolt' the plate into the door?

I'm thinking I'll purchase the reinforcement plate and have it tack welded into the door.

[porterdog]

There are two plates, actually, and they sandwich the old door metal between them. The bolts (supplied with the plate kit) go (from front to back) thru the smaller plate, thru the space in the door, thru the inner plate, and thread into the check strap.

Following some advice in a different thread I simply bent the bent door metal back into rough position, used longer than required bolts to start, and then showed it who was boss. Tightening down the temporary bolts squashed the trashed door metal back to a semblance of 'stock', at which point I could pull out the temporary bolts and install the ones that came with the plates.

My door really looked like crap and it's working fine now.

[bigel]

I didn't realize the kit 'sandwiched' the door sheetmetal...I can't imagine that looks good.

Do you have pictures of the repair...pre/post?

[porterdog]

You can't see it unless you're looking, seriously. The 'outer' smaller plate sits behind the main outer surface on the blown-out recessed surface. Search on 'door stay repair' and similar; there are photos up already.

LMK if you don't find them and I'll take some later today.

[bigel]

P-Dog, found loads of photos but none showing the installed outer plate.

[porterdog]

Originally Posted by bigel

....none showing the installed outer plate.

LOL, probably because it's impossible to see and difficult to photograph.

Normal perspective:




Camera jammed into a position you'd find hard to get your head into:

[bigel]

...but how is the mechanism attached to the door?! The original unit that I recently removed was 'floating' inside the door...I imagine the same thing would be the case with the replacement plates. Perhaps I didn't mention that the mounting bracket inside the door fatigued and broke off.

[Targalid]

You guys got me curious so I went out and looked at my driver door which also makes the popping noise when closing. I didn't see the damage to the metal that some of you have so I simply hosed the mechanism photographed above with WD-40 and the noise disappeared about 90%, faint but still apparent. Does this damage occur because the parts bind due to a lack of lubrication? I think I'll go out today and run my finger along the arm and pivot with some grease to see if I can eliminate the binding noise entirely.

[porterdog]

Originally Posted by bigel

...but how is the mechanism attached to the door?! The original unit that I recently removed was 'floating' inside the door...I imagine the same thing would be the case with the replacement plates. Perhaps I didn't mention that the mounting bracket inside the door fatigued and broke off.

Your problem is common; the force required to push the checkstrap through its 'stop' is too high and eventually the door metal gives up. Mine also was utterly destroyed, and the PO had kludged a repair by putting some big-ass fender washers onto the checkstrap bolts; the stop would just poke into the door when it was closed, and when you opened it the fender washers would simply catch the edge of the twisted original hole; it was awesome.

The plates are significantly larger than the original footprint of the checkstrap stop was, so they reach past the edges of the trashed metal to metal which, while likely distorted, is still firmly attached to the door.

Again, the distorted old metal is clamped between two new steel plates, and the entire assembly is bolted together with bolts threaded thru from the outside into the checkstrap stop.

Respectfully, you're overthinking this. Buy the plates, they're $30 a side. Take apart your door and everything will fall into place for you. The plates work.

[b00mslang]

My drivers side failed so I ordered the reinforcing kit. Unfortunately, the hole that the failure left behind was too large for the smaller/hinge-side piece to fill.

So, I carefully straightened the piece that had completely separated, straightened the sheet metal on the inside and welded it back in.

I filled the small gaps and then back-stepped the welds a bit at a time, cooling the weld w/ a gentle application of air between welds (to prevent overheating the area and causing damage to the doorjamb or doorskin paint.

Prior to beginning the weld process I brushed the little bit of dirt out of the bottom of the door and vacuumed it out. Then I placed a wet shop rag in the bottom of the door below the weld area.

You need to be particularly careful when straightening the metal inside the door. I put a piece of heavy cardstock between the work area and the door skin. Lucky thing too, I was using a carbide burr in my pneumatic/angle die grinder and it grabbed a couple of times and may have struck the doorskin if I hadn't protected it.

The only problem was welding the curved doubler section that faces away. I had to aim the contact tip and take it a spot at a time. I had it pretty well perfect and then got a bit carried away and burned a small hole that I had to chase. I wound up using (trashing) an inspection mirror to finish it.

Lastly, I cut a piece of 16ga. cold-rolled as a reinforcing doubler for the inside of door stay/check mount area, and fully welded it. Cleaned it up with the die-grinder and primed it w/ some cold zinc.

Initially I had contemplated welding in one or the other of the plates that came with the reinforcing kit. However, the added thickness would have prevented the installation of the door stay/check (the OEM unit has studs spot welded in place and they're too short for more than the additional 16ga. thickness).
Of course, I could have ground off the heads of the studs and through-bolted it but I decided that the 16ga. almost doubled the original thickness.

I reinstalled the old door stay/check and it works fine. Didn't damage the paint, however, the inside of the door has a split at the opening where the check/stay originally failed (it isn't that noticeable). I'll probably TIG weld that up later or sil-braze in a small piece.

At first I thought this was a poorly designed mounting point but I've had similar failures on American cars. My SC was owned by the same lady for 30 years and she likely allowed the door to swing "un-checked" by hand. I never allow my doors to swing to be stopped by the stays/checks. In my mind, they exist for those rare occasions that the door slips out of your hand or you let it go inadvertently.

I had contemplated plasma cutting or die-grinding out an access hole in the inner skin, just above the speaker hole, to facilitate the fabrication and installation of a perfect repair that mimicked the OEM sheet metal. However, since a couple of chunks of plate clamping the old/torn metal appears to be an acceptable repair, I decided to perform the best possible job in-situ.


Next, I may install the reinforcing kit on the passenger side as preventative maintenance.