Hot Rod Dilemma..opinions required.

[Red Clubbie]

Guys,

I'm thinking of doing a hot rod project later in the year. I'm thinking a 911R themed car, not a replica, but tastefully modded.

I currently have two very original cars and have always based my cars on total originality, but I was thinking of something a little bit different.

As I see it, I have two options....

1. Use a pre1974 non matching car, with maybe a 2.7 or 3.0 engine.
To use a matching numbers RHD car would be cost prohibitive.

2. Use a LHD late 80's 3.2 G50 Carrera and backdate. It would have to be converted
to RHD, but again a RHD Carrera would be cost prohibitive.

I know there are pros and cons on both sides and I'll go into that later.

I'm just looking for some opinions on which would be the best way to go, taking all matters into consideration.

Cheers,

Geoff.

[widgeon13]

I'd go with a pre 74 and 3.0, a very nice combination of weight reduction and power.

[Joe Bob]

The theory on Hot Rods is cheap light tubs, spendy motor and trans....

[will hung]

I would suggest option #3.

3. Use a LHD mid-year ('74-77) 911 and backdate.

You would be starting from the cheapest starting point possible. Plus you would already have the 2.7 as a starting point for a nice RS spec motor. Find one in an interesting non-metallic paint job and you could backdate it for fairly cheap.

[wayner]

I've always wondered with hotrods:

At resale time, assuming that you started with a car that needed help and not a pristine early car, does it matter if you start with a real long hood and hotrod it, or hotrod a 74+ car?

At that point do you think buyers would care what it used to be?

(yes I am aware of the depreciation on parts etc. I am talking about a car built for yourself)

[giovanni86]

option number one

[RWebb]

you'll need to run the $$ numbers on parts to replace on the later (bumper) cars vs. an early car

but... here is option 4....

4. backdate a 964 tub if you can find one cheap -- they are much stiffer than the 911 tubs and weigh just a tad more

can you live with coil-overs? they have that nasty modern competence at maintaining correct geometry so that is mark against them

you could sell the engine, trans, and all the heavy luxo crap from the interior for $$

there is an old thread by Nashville Porsche Doc or some such on doing this

[Red Clubbie]

Thanks for the comments guys, keep them coming.

Some pros and cons as I see them....

Option 1.

Pros:
-The car is a long hood with parts attached.
-The cost of the project is probably a little cheaper.
-Would be accepted more in the small bumper community.

Cons:
-Chances are that rust could be an issue.
-The car is at least 15 years older than a backdated one.
-Maybe harder to find a suitable donor car.

Option 2.

Pros:
-The donor car would be in better condition, galvinised body etc.
-Better drive train and motor.
-Better brakes, suspension.

Cons:
-The car will always be a late 1980's Carrera, will it be accepted in the community?
-The project would probably cost more to do.

Any RHD matching numbers car here in Australia, is going to cost more to purchase.
So therefore the project is only going to work if the car is non matching engine.

If the car matches the engine, then I would rather go LHD conversion 3.2 car, as I think I will get maximum proformance from this engine, with maybe a few little twicks...

Please keep the comments coming as nothing is finalised yet....

Cheers,

Geoff.

[RWebb]

option 1 might be accepted LESS in the small bumper community -- you hack up an E or an S and you are on some people's "to kill" list

is there road salt in Sydney?

also, some don't care about community acceptance - I even know of one special car that was sold overseas just to keep it away from the community

[Red Clubbie]

Originally Posted by RWebb

option 1 might be accepted LESS in the small bumper community -- you hack up an E or an S and you are on some people's "to kill" list

is there road salt in Sydney?

also, some don't care about community acceptance - I even know of one special car that was sold overseas just to keep it away from the community

No there is no salt in Sydney. Winter is pretty mild. No snow.....

I agree, I would never "hack" up a matching number car.

Cheers,

Geoff.

[Fishcop]

Geoff, Hotrods are all about you...

I had a perfectly acceptable RHD matching numbers longhood. But I wanted MY car

In the Aussie market, you're better off getting hold of someone elses half@ssed failed resto and working with that. Once again, that's what I started with. Then you can blame the "PO" for everything

[Adam993]

Originally Posted by Fishcop

Geoff, Hotrods are all about you...

I had a perfectly acceptable RHD matching numbers longhood. But I wanted MY car

In the Aussie market, you're better off getting hold of someone elses half@ssed failed resto and working with that. Once again, that's what I started with. Then you can blame the "PO" for everything

Lol, I agree with John on this one, have a look on evil bay I see many good project starts weekly on there and the best bit is it won't break the bank!

[JEM911]

The RHD conversion process is time consuming and takes a lot of work. Plus the parts aren't that cheap. If you want to go the conversion route I would look to buy a RHD clip from the UK, or locally if its available?

I would definitely try and get a G50 based donor car.

It's my experience that most people will NEVER value a modified car. They will always see it as a butchered car.. right or wrong, but people seem to assume you've most probably cut corners and that they will be buying your mistakes.

If it was me, I would buy a pre 1989 RHD ex the UK and import it... there prices are pretty competitive and you will be able to get original RHD as opposed to an aftermarket conversion...

[Macroni]

I would start w/ a pre74 or 912 if it can be found w/ minimal rust. This would let you start w/ a narrow bodied car for an R recreation. If I was not building an R and building a ST, RS or RSR; I would consider a backdate.

Presently, I am confused w/ the 74,75,76 and 77 cars. I believe you could also acquire them as narrow bodied cars. They would be very inexpensive starting points again with rust being a critical component in the decision.

Here is speedo's 912 2.7RS spec "R"



It was built here.....

[Macroni]

Originally Posted by Fishcop

Geoff, Hotrods are all about you...

In the Aussie market, you're better off getting hold of someone elses half@ssed failed resto and working with that. Once again, that's what I started with. Then you can blame the "PO" for everything

I do not know if it is cheaper to start w/ a car that needs further modification to meet your requirements. I went through that w/ my longhood and I am sure it would have been cheaper to start w/ a blank sheet of paper v. the transformation from one builder's vision to mine.....






Now a completed hot rod project you can buy at a discount to build and come out ahead. This car has it all for under $50,000. A bargain based upon my spend.....







http://www.aceautosports.com/wordpress/?page_id=4

[Red Clubbie]

All good points guys and certainly all valid issues to consider....

Macroni, that car for sale is very nice...

Cheers,

Geoff.

[Fishcop]

Geoff, there's been a couple of dogs on Aussie eBay and Unique Cars that whilst woeful to behold, they were factory RHD (I think one was a 912) and butchered with needless cosmetics - you may have seen the awful red one with the Gemballa style slant-nose kit? However if they were rust free and stripped down, could make a good base and the couple I've seen were less than $10k

Two other options...

A Targa. There's been a couple of nice targas popping up (longhood) that could be hotrodded without incurring the wrath of the Porschenisti...

A 914GT repica, there's a few RHD 914 (conversions of course) on the market that could make a relatively rare car over here that can arguably out-perform an equivalent 911.

[Red Clubbie]

John,

A RHD O/S car is certainly worth considering.

I think I want a 911 Coupe, so a Targa or 914 is probably out of the question, but thanks for mentioning it.

Cheers,

Geoff.

[m110]

Originally Posted by RWebb

you'll need to run the $$ numbers on parts to replace on the later (bumper) cars vs. an early car

but... here is option 4....

4. backdate a 964 tub if you can find one cheap -- they are much stiffer than the 911 tubs and weigh just a tad more

can you live with coil-overs? they have that nasty modern competence at maintaining correct geometry so that is mark against them

you could sell the engine, trans, and all the heavy luxo crap from the interior for $$

there is an old thread by Nashville Porsche Doc or some such on doing this

While this certainly gives the most balanced car, it will also never feel like an old hot rod....which might be ok with you, it will just lack some rawness. Converting the front clip to a longhood look is also a big job.

[dsfnctn]

I know of a great project for you or anyone else for that matter. Our company buys from Australia and New Zealand and ship with TNT International. With your strong dollar it more than offsets the shipping. The tub is a 1970 that has been stripped and all the undercoating and sound deadening is off . The tub is in great shape and is owned by a certified welder so he has plugged some of the small rust areas that show on a 40 year old car. It comes with a complete 78 SC car as a donna for the 3.0ltr ,trans and cooler lines up dated suspension etc. For $10 K it is a steal in my opinion