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3.6 with ITBs & MS3X into G50 Carrera – the story so far

This little story started off in November 2009 as a $3000 pile of parts (someone’s abandoned project) brought home in the back of my son’s Suzuki. The Finance Dept was not impressed!
Basically, the parts should all come together as a 3.6 engine, originally from a 1992 Carrera2.


This story might drag on a bit as I have hundreds of photos to choose from which cover a lot of the non-standard mods I performed along the way. I hope you find the journey interesting.

In April 2010, I went shopping in the US for a future home for what was now my new project and I came up with these two G50 Carreras – guards red ’87 and ***** brown ’88 – both bought here from Pelicans .
I was planning on major bodywork and a colour change anyway, so I flipped the red one, being easier to sell. The $11,400 brown one has been my daily-driver since late 2010 with zero maintenance cost – poor thing doesn’t know what it’s in for!
The 930 is my weekend driver.


While I was in the states car shopping, I also picked up a few other goodies including a complete set of steel turbo panels. These will eventually find their way onto the brown car. I have a turbo tail, but if I can fit ITBs, air cleaners and a/c condenser under a standard lid, I will go for the tail-less wide-body look.
I didn’t want to deal with a centre front oil cooler, so right from the outset, I needed to fit an engine-mounted 911 cooler to the 3.6 case.
Airflow to cooler needs a duct similar to 911 so I mocked it up in foam on the engine and used this as the core for the fibreglass part.


The plastic shroud needed a few holes for airflow and and captive nuts for the duct.




The hole on the left is not drilled through into the thermostat hole on a 3.6. To use a 911 thermostat and oil cooler, this hole must be drilled through and recessed to suit the oil cooler o-ring.


There are different ways of dealing with the oil supply from the tank to the oil pump when doing a 3.6 conversion. Most involve replacing the pipe that is integral with the oil cooler.
I preferred not to cut up a standard 911 oil cooler so I made up an adaptor (using the original 3.6 fitting) to suit the oil pipe connection at the bottom of the oil cooler.


In a 3.6, the oil temp sensor is normally mounted in the cover plate that fits in what was the thermostat hole on earlier engines, but because I was installing a 911 thermostat, I had to find a new home for the sensor.
I fitted it into the back end of the case in the same location as earlier engines. This is the oil passage to the RH tensioner and cam housing.



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Bill
1988 Carrera - 3.6 engine (with ITBs, COPs, MS3X) and a whole set of turbo body panels waiting in the attic.
Day job ... www.sspowdercoat.com.au
Memories: '68 912, '72 911T, '80 911SC, '84 911, '85 930, '86 930, '87 911
Old 01-27-2012, 11:15 PM
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continued .....

The heads were refaced, received new guides, reground seats and some porting.
The original 4mm wide graphite sealing rings in the cylinders were replaced with later, but narrower, steel rings on recommendations from resident engine gurus.


I just couldn’t bring myself to use that humungous original intake system, so always up for a challenge, I looked into lower budget ITB options. I wasn’t about to double my investment so far by going in the PMO direction, so I shopped around and came up with these triple TBs from a 2005 Triumph 675 Daytona. I bought four as-new sets on eBay for $500 shipped to Aus.
They came with throttle position switches, air horns and idle stepper motors.


The underside of the TBs needed to be taken out to 44mm to suit the intake runners. The butterfly is also 44mm.
The original injector ports were tapped and plugged with M12 grub screws.


To make the 10mm aluminium flanges for the intake runners and 18mm phenolic spacers, I used the base of an old 3.6 inlet tube as a template and cut the parts to shape on my woodwork router. Cutting the ally was fun, but it works OK if you don’t get too greedy!
Neighbor’s lathe came in handy for o-ring grooves and centre hole.






The intake runners are fabbed from 50mm OD aluminium tube with 3mm wall thickness (= 44mm ID for the non-mathematicians). I’d liked to have tapered them a bit, but the inlet ports in the heads were already 42mm and the ITBs were 44mm, so I ended up just running with 44mm all the way through and opening up the inlet ports to match. The parallel inlet tract will have a downside for tuning, but I’ll get over it!
I got a local pipe fabricator to mandrel bend some pipe for me and then I cut it to give the 35mm offset that I needed. I don’t have welding equipment for aluminium so a simple jig held the pieces in place for another local shop to weld them up.


TB centres are 83mm compared to inlet port centres of 118mm.
The TBs can be separated and spaced apart but I chose to go with standard 83mm centres so I could keep the linkages simple and use the same size air filter as used on triple Webers.
I thought this would be easier, but if I was doing it again, I’d seriously consider spacing them out to match heads and then using straight runners and individual pod filters for each TB.




It was a lot of work to make up filter housings (base and hat) in carbon fibre. I had to make moulds first and then had a couple attempts before I got the fibre weave looking OK. They still need a nice glossy clear coat to bring out the carbon fibre look.
One base has the inlet air temp sensor mounted in it, the other has a connection for the IACV.
The TBs came with idle stepper motors but I decided to use a simpler single IACV to avoid potential wiring and programming issues with multiple stepper motors.
__________________
Bill
1988 Carrera - 3.6 engine (with ITBs, COPs, MS3X) and a whole set of turbo body panels waiting in the attic.
Day job ... www.sspowdercoat.com.au
Memories: '68 912, '72 911T, '80 911SC, '84 911, '85 930, '86 930, '87 911
Old 01-27-2012, 11:26 PM
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continued ....

TBs are cable-operated. I was surprised at how easy and cheap it was to get custom cables made up.


The pivot arm needs to be adjustable for length so that the full range of pedal travel can be matched with WOT at the TBs.


I’m sure these 3.6 circlips are thicker than those on earlier cars. On earlier builds, I have always just flipped them into place with a small screwdriver, but there was no way that was going to happen with these clips.

The manual shows a special tool for installing 3.6 circlips, which I obviously didn’t have in my collection, so I did a bit of grinding on an old allen key to make a tool that worked a treat.


Barrels were notched and crankcase webs boat-tailed for that little bit of efficiency improvement. It’s a bit OOT for this engine, but it only takes an hour or so and reduces weight too!


Old rods, but nice new bearings and ARP bolts.


Almost ready to close up the case.


Sealing the camshaft housing.


Cam timing of John Dougherty’s DC21 cams.
Who needs one of those fancy Z blocks!


Oil pressure sensors repositioned, 911 thermostat and oil cooler installed and 964 knock sensors refitted.


Intake runners with standard 3.2 fuel rails and 993 injectors.
Bracket at left has hose connections for fuel return, brake vacuum and instrument vacuum (to MegaSquirt MS3X).
The other brackets above rocker cover are for electrical connectors.
__________________
Bill
1988 Carrera - 3.6 engine (with ITBs, COPs, MS3X) and a whole set of turbo body panels waiting in the attic.
Day job ... www.sspowdercoat.com.au
Memories: '68 912, '72 911T, '80 911SC, '84 911, '85 930, '86 930, '87 911
Old 01-27-2012, 11:35 PM
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continued ....

Drilling and tapping the camshaft for Clewett cam position sensor was way easier than I expected. Use lots of grease to catch filings and to keep them out of the bearing.


Toyota Highlander coil packs (90919-02246) require a 5V signal from ECU and 12V power supply. Lower coils are retained by M6 bolts, but upper coils fit securely enough without bolts.
These are expensive from Toyota, but I picked up 14 of them for $7 each on eBay.


The standard seals under the top of the coils were too large to fit with 964 rocker covers however a 930 clutch shaft seal I had lying around fitted perfectly, but at $5 a hit, I opted for something a bit cheaper.
A 3mm dia o-ring stretched over the shaft doesn’t completely seal the air gap but comes pretty close and keeps the coil centralised in the rocker cover hole.


It’s starting to get busy on the topside now as fuel and vacuum hoses are fitted.
The fuel pressure regulator and idle air control valve are mounted on a sturdy three-legged platform at the front of the engine.


Single pulley conversions are available in the market, but if you want to make your own, here’s what you need to know.
The steel bush (blue) needs to have one end exactly same size as the bearing it replaces (17 ID x 32 OD x 18 wide) with an extension of 22mm to replace the original outer pulley.
I tack-welded the bush into the pulley hub in four places on the back side. However if you wanted something less permanent, three or four short M6 grub screws fitted radially (red) around the hub would do the job. Just don’t screw the grub screws against the alternator shaft.


The engine tin that came with the engine was mostly junk due to accident damage so I bought a full set of earlier 911 tins and made a few mods.
Also, I want to keep this engine in the original position when it is fitted into the car (88 Carrera), so I figured that revising earlier tins to suit the engine was a better option than making later 3.6 tins fit the car.


Most of the work was in modifying the large rear piece. It required quite a bit of cutting and reshaping to suit the 3.6 engine mount.
Small plates were required on each side to close off the gap at the chain housings as well.
All powder-coated black of course.


The engine mount came from another Pelican already modified to pickup the engine mount locations in my car.
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Bill
1988 Carrera - 3.6 engine (with ITBs, COPs, MS3X) and a whole set of turbo body panels waiting in the attic.
Day job ... www.sspowdercoat.com.au
Memories: '68 912, '72 911T, '80 911SC, '84 911, '85 930, '86 930, '87 911
Old 01-27-2012, 11:46 PM
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continued .....

Headers are everyone’s favourite – OBX.
I cut off the original 1-3/4” flanges, shortened the collector and refitted new 2-1/4” flanges.


I played around with $50 worth of PVC plumbing fittings to figure out the best routing for exhaust pipes and heat exchanger piping. Its really easy and quick to try different ideas in plastic.


Once I was happy with the layout, I ordered a heap of stainless steel mandrel bends and short lengths of pipe, cut it all up and tack welded the whole system together.
A friend who is TIG expert came over and welded it all for me.




2-1/4” pipes run from header flanges through annular 3” heat exchangers to Magnaflow 10436 2-1/2” mufflers.
Left and right side exhausts are not connected. The smaller (2”) pipe that runs between the heat exchangers is the fresh air supply (from top of engine shroud).
I’ll cut and fit the tailpipes once I have the engine in the car.


Aluminium heat shields are an attempt to protect the lower coils and wiring from direct exhaust heat.
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Bill
1988 Carrera - 3.6 engine (with ITBs, COPs, MS3X) and a whole set of turbo body panels waiting in the attic.
Day job ... www.sspowdercoat.com.au
Memories: '68 912, '72 911T, '80 911SC, '84 911, '85 930, '86 930, '87 911
Old 01-27-2012, 11:54 PM
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continued .... nearly there!

With wiring harnesses in place, this side of the engine gets quite busy.
The four plugs above #3 are for L and R knock sensors, cylinder head temp and flywheel ignition sensor.
The four plugs above #2 are for ignition coils, fuel injection and sensors, all of which get connected to MS3.
The harness with the red wires is the standard 14 pin connection to the rear relay panel.
O2 sensors are fitted in both pipes and Innovate LC-1’s and a G5 gauge will be used to monitor AFRs (not control them).


Wiring diagram for MS3X and relay panel is all sorted. If anyone wants a clear copy, I can email a PDF or Visio version if you email me with your address.


Topside plumbing and harnesses are complete here. After playing around in the engine bay of my 930, I was desperate to keep this as simple as possible and to be sure that all hose and wiring connections could be accessed easily with the engine in the car.
It’s a real trap to just screw everything together while you can access the engine from all sides without giving any thought to access once the engine is in the car.


Vacuum plumbing was reasonably straight-forward because the Triumph TBs all had multiple 3mm vacuum ports complete with moulded hoses.
A – one port on each of the six TBs provides vacuum for brakes.
B – each TB is also connected to the idle air control valve (which is controlled by MS3).
C – the end TB on each bank has an extra port that is used for vaccum to instruments and MS3.
D – brake vacuum
E – instrument & MS3 vacuum
F – fuel return
G – fuel supply


Spaghetti junction!
FPR and Jeep IACV are mounted on a support at the front of the engine.
The IACV will take filtered air from a connection in the air cleaner housing.


Almost there!
Things still on the “to do” list:
• final clear coat on CF filter housings
• finalise clutch parts (to mate with G50 box)
• MS3X harness from engine bay
• MS3X setup and tuning (major learning curve)
• install engine
• tailpipes

I figure about 6 months!
I'll drive it around for a while before starting on the interior and bodywork.


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Bill
1988 Carrera - 3.6 engine (with ITBs, COPs, MS3X) and a whole set of turbo body panels waiting in the attic.
Day job ... www.sspowdercoat.com.au
Memories: '68 912, '72 911T, '80 911SC, '84 911, '85 930, '86 930, '87 911
Old 01-28-2012, 12:12 AM
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Very nice!
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Old 01-28-2012, 12:14 AM
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Nice build you have there. I like the idea of using the coil on plugs instead of $500 set of wires too. If you don't mind, I have a few ?'s. where did you source the connectors for the coils? Also do you have both a crank and cam angle sensor? If so, what is the advantage to this? If that engine has variable valve timing, that would make sense. I'm planning a similar build and would greatly appreciate a copy of the wiring. My email is: lynchdc78sc@gmail.com
Thanks,
Derek
Old 01-28-2012, 03:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 78SCRSMAN View Post
Where did you source the connectors for the coils? Also do you have both a crank and cam angle sensor? If so, what is the advantage to this?
Thanks,
Derek
I bought my coil connectors from Toyota (my son works there and gets a good discount). Toyota part # 90980-11885. They are also available non-genuine from AUTOMOTIVE SENSOR PLUGS,INJECTOR PLUG, COIL PLUG, FUEL FITTINGS and probably other connector suppliers in the US.


Crank sensor runs on the 60-2 teeth flywheel and is used to determine crank position for ignition timing. Because the crank turns two times between each ignition firing, the cam sensor identifies on which rotation the ECU should fire the coils. It would work OK without cam sensor if coils were fired on every rotation (called wasted spark).
MS3X can also use this combination of sensors for sequential injection (where injectors are fired at an optimum time to suit the intake valve opening).
Wiring diagram is in your inbox.
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1988 Carrera - 3.6 engine (with ITBs, COPs, MS3X) and a whole set of turbo body panels waiting in the attic.
Day job ... www.sspowdercoat.com.au
Memories: '68 912, '72 911T, '80 911SC, '84 911, '85 930, '86 930, '87 911
Old 01-28-2012, 04:51 AM
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Very nice. Thanks for posting
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Old 01-28-2012, 06:10 AM
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Very nice! Can't wait to hear about how it runs with the Triumph TBs. Awesum fab skills.
Old 01-28-2012, 06:50 AM
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Bill,
Excellent work. I have completed both a 2.7 with Triumph ITBs and a 3.6 with TWM ITBs. Both are using M'squirt with good results, but you are setting the bar higher with this one. Mad skills.

regards,
al
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Old 01-28-2012, 07:29 AM
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Amazing build, are you sure you will have enough oil cooling with the stock 3.2 oil cooler and the on engine oil cooler? I think you will need more.
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Old 01-28-2012, 07:45 AM
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Outstanding fabrication Bill. VERY nice work.

Also glad to see those headers work out for you. I thought they were not too bad too. Track tested

Porsche 911 HPDE Ruckus - YouTube
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Old 01-28-2012, 07:52 AM
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Thank you Bill for the great post and for sending the diagrams. After I asked about the cam sensor I read some on the ms3x and realized you must be using sequential injection.
I noticed you're using cables for throttle control... would you mind posting some more photos of your setup and are you using equal length?
Thanks again
Looking forward to hearing it run.
Old 01-28-2012, 08:01 AM
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WOW.. very impressive.. it seems you know quite a bit about engines.
Old 01-28-2012, 11:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elombard View Post
Amazing build, are you sure you will have enough oil cooling with the stock 3.2 oil cooler and the on engine oil cooler? I think you will need more.
Sitting right next to my Carrera in the second pic is a 400HP turbo that gets by quite happily with its standard coolers - one on the engine and one in the front fender. I figured that if it was OK for the turbo, the Carrera would be OK with about 100HP less.

Actually, I'd be interested in some expert guesses as to what power I might expect with this build. Main mods include:
44mm ITBs and mildly ported heads
DC21 camshafts
Megasquirt MS3X engine management
Coil-on-plug ignition
headers
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1988 Carrera - 3.6 engine (with ITBs, COPs, MS3X) and a whole set of turbo body panels waiting in the attic.
Day job ... www.sspowdercoat.com.au
Memories: '68 912, '72 911T, '80 911SC, '84 911, '85 930, '86 930, '87 911
Old 01-28-2012, 03:39 PM
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This is really nice and creative work you've done Bill. It's good to see someone with the skill to DIY at this level. People like you are fading from earth.

I've got a set of 1/4 built ITBs for a 3.6 RSR project sitting in my workshop. Need to get off my a$$ and get back to work.
Old 01-28-2012, 04:08 PM
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Thanks for the compliments but it’s not all my work. It’s really the openness of this forum that enables projects like this. Without being able to pick the brains of others here, I wouldn’t have dared tackle some aspects of this build.
I know zip about setting up and tuning Megasquirt ECU, but knowing that there are a few Pelicans out there who I can call on when I get stuck is a great security net.

It’s not only the free exchange of ideas here, but as we all know, it’s also such a great source of parts at practical prices. There might be a few others parts I’ve missed, but in addition to the car, on this forum I’ve also bought alternator, headers, camshafts, engine mount, injectors (twice !), engine tin, fuel rails, oxygen sensors, crank pulleys, pressure plate, rocker covers, oil cooler and thermostat – all used or near-new at very good pricing.

Love it!
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1988 Carrera - 3.6 engine (with ITBs, COPs, MS3X) and a whole set of turbo body panels waiting in the attic.
Day job ... www.sspowdercoat.com.au
Memories: '68 912, '72 911T, '80 911SC, '84 911, '85 930, '86 930, '87 911
Old 01-29-2012, 04:48 AM
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what can I say
Well thought trou build.
Exilent craftmanship.
Nice details.

Old 01-30-2012, 12:43 AM
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