3.2 running like crap after tune up/ valve adjustment
 

so my wife got me the tune up kit for my 1987 3.2 and i decided to have at it. change the fuel filter, rotor, distributor cap, oiled the felt in the rotor shaft, changed the plugs, replaced penzoil 10w30 with brad penn, and did my first ever valve adjustment. the car was running smooth before all this. but when it would warm up it would smoke blue. which i know my valve guides are worn and i really need a top end rebuild. but i was running smooth and strong other then the smoking.
now the car at idle ran smooth for about 2 min, pretty much until it warmed up, and now feels like its running on 4 cylinders... really shaky and rough at idle, no power on the drive, and really blue smoky at stop lights. this sucks.
so i was thinking, when i did the valve adjustment it was pretty freaking cold outside and my garage isn't heated. it was actually snowing the week i did all this, so maybe 40F degrees in my garage. could this have to do with it?

HELP! :(

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1327783421.jpg

Did you check oil level while engine idling at operating temps?

Maybe you overfilled.

Check you put the plugs back on in the right order on the rotor. And perhaps overfilled oil.

Plug wires off or reversed. Closed gap on a single plug. Valves tight. It's difficult to adjust valves with worn guides. Like Tippy said, oil level too high, it should be just up about an inch on the stick when warm.

+1 on the plug wires. Check your plug wires......when you are done with that.....check your plug wires again. It is easy to install them in the incorrect positions.

Check your plug wires for their overall resistance value while you are at it. Mine seemed to have a stumble and I found one at 2 meg ohms! Mine should be around 4K ohms.
Runs very smooth now with new wires and a new green coax wire to the distributor.

i'll double check all the wires.

when i did the oil i did not let the motor get hot, and i went off the oil level gauge when i filled it. i poured until the gauge level was right in the middle. so ill let the motor get hot and then check it with the dipstick.

if there is to much oil do i have to replace my spark plugs? could the high oil level foul plugs?

so yes there was to much oil in there. i brought the oil level down.

my wires are wired correctly to the distributor and the distributor is on in the correct direction.

still running rough... new plugs?

How much is "too much"..?

Without question, I'd remove all plugs (or just change them),..as well, I'd drop the air box and AFM for an inspection/cleaning,..depending on degree of overfill, really. Some have had overfills that just soak the intake,.....even oil coming from the damned exhaust (major overfill?),..much of which will burn off with time....

That overfill amount will "go" somewhere....I'd just make sure everything is clean (and fresh plugs,..at least, LOOK at 'em)

BEST!

Doyle

Did you check the actual wire condition as I mentioned earlier? (Resistance, possible light show in the dark)
High resistance or bad connections to plugs will cause trouble.
You said you changed the plugs, are they defective from the box? I've found brand new ones where the ceramic insulator actually slipped down and covered the electrode. 2 out of 4 made for a really rough idle on my Toyota! (Gotta love having parts made in China!)

I wonder if the O2 sensor is disconnected. Is the idle switch adjusted correctly?

idle switch?

i pulled the plugs. #3 and #1 were wet/oily the rest were okay. so i replaced the two. still running rough. no light up show from the plug wires. pulled out each plug wire one by one, pulling #1 made no difference. its not firing... a co worker of mine was over during this, and he thinks i messed up on the valve adjustment and the valve is opening to much. you can hear the tapping for that side of the motor also. so I'm thinking to redo the valve adjustment and double check all the gaps before closing it up... this sucks because i just wasted all that fresh brad penn. and do i have to buy new seals and hardware? its only two short drives old...

Did you line up the "Z1" or the other mark near it? Not 100% if you adjusted #1 on the other mark, would it keep the valves open, but may be a possibility. More I think about it, if you had the valves too tight, you'd probably hear the compression leak out through the intake and/or exhaust.

Second, you can reuse the old hardware and gaskets except if you have ripped the gaskets. It is really an experiment. If it leaks, you'll have to replace. If it doesn't, you are good to go. Even if it leaks, it won't be a gusher IMO (unless you tore it and did not see it) and in a pinch, you can drive the car until you buy new ones.

Third, you don't have to drain the oil to redo the valves, just add what you lost.

i couldn't see the "Z1" marking on the pulley. i have the AC pulley in front of it and it is covering that. but the only place on the pulley where their are two markings, i went with the marking to the left. thats what it looks like is the right one in the 101 projects picture....

Back to the wires, new wires are a very tight fit, you have to insure they "CLICK" down on the plugs and no air is trapped under the boots on the dizzy

Did you verify TDC by checking the rotor position during valve adjust?

yes.

they're the same "old" wires, these are six years old. i got them all to "click" in

Cap squarely on dizzy housing? Oil fling out onto any of the contacts?

Search in the engine rebuild section by title for "Z1" for positive identification for the crank pulley.

What intrigues me is that it runs better cold. I wonder if the valves are too tight, and they are not closing once warmed up? Tdc is the second of the two marks close together.

So you have confirmed good spark on that cylinder #1 wire by plugging in a good plug and grounding it to the case while turning the car over and seeing it spark? (Pull fuel relay)

What method did you use to set valve clearances? Normal or backside method? first time setting them?
I know I had trouble my first time and really only understood true TDC on #1 after putting my z-block and dial gauge on the valve while timing my cams during my head stud replacement last fall.
You could easily be 360 degrees off.

I had a recent ignition issue with my 165,000 miles 1988 3.2. It turned out to be a bad distributor whose shaft came loose and trashed my rotor and cap. Take the distributor out for examination. My bad one had about a 1mm vertical play in the shaft to body length when you pull on the gear.

Also have you checked the head temp sensor or replaced the old 1 wire version if that's what you have?

The other possibility for poor running is the crank position sensor may have failed.

heres what the cap old cap looks like. notice the grooves where the points are? is this normal?

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1327873563.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1327873591.jpg

and here is the new one. grooves are starting to reform there, and a lot of carbon. normal?


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1327873689.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1327873723.jpg

My cap looked like that too. I wonder if the cap is slightly undersized or the rotor slightly over.

I don't think that is the source of your problem. Drain the Brad Penn into a very clean (or new) container and reuse it when you re-do your valves.

Please check all your spark plugs. Lately, I have seen several DEAD or shorted plugs that do not fire. The latest I saw was on our track car. In the cases I have seen the car runs with one missing cylinder. If you by chance have a non contact thermometer, check exhausts until you find the cold one. Check that spark plug.

Maybe the spark plugs are now made in China.

You should also be able to tell by pulling the plugs shortly after running. Any plugs not firing will be cooler than those that were firing.



Good luck with it.

You don't have to drain your oil to do a valve adjustment. The intake valve covers can come off without losing any oil at all. For the exhaust just jack up one side of the car so that any oil pooled in the exhaust valve covers will drain to the crankcase sump. When you're done with one side, jack up the other side and adjust those. I've reused new valve cover gaskets once without any leakage problems whatsoever. Your problem lies with what you changed. Just be methodical and check spark on each plug and if that's not the problem re check your valve clearances. It has to be something significant to make the car go from running fine to running so poorly.

Hi Mark,

I live close to you. I've adjusted a lot of valves. If you need another set of eyes, hands etc.
Just take it one step at a time. It takes a while to burn off that extra oil. A lot of good advice.
Tippy, is right on about those little things. Don't run it anymore until everything has been checked.

By the way it isn't your wife's fault! We all make mistakes, some are really dumb & some are
very costly. Ask all the questions you want.

Larry

hi,
i Agree with many here too,
if the car was running fine before you adjusted the valves then i would look there first.
you can adjust the valves without needing to see the pulley markings, but you need to be absolutely sure that the rocker arms are on the lowest part of the cam lobe before adjusting,[pretty obvious when you re-look at the rocker to cam clearance interaction] if your not sure, just get someone to turn the crank slowly by hand with a spanner so that you can see the cam and rocker movements, it should then be obvious when the rocker is on the lowest part of the cam lobe to adjust it.
This should give you confidence that you are pretty much back to square one as far as the valves are concerned.
As for the disi cap, well, the arking marks are probably caused by condensation build up in the cap and the spark will momentarily jump randomly to the cap due to the moisture providing another potential for the spark to reack earth.
Once the engine is warmed up thoroughly the cap will dry out and the arcking will stop so i wouldnt worry about that, also, check to see how much side movement you have in the disi shaft as this could also be a cause of some of the marks on the inside the cap ie; shaft throw out due to excessive play etc.
If still nothing after these checks i would recomend as others here have and replace the coil leads and plugs on the known troubled cylinders and see if that sheds any light.
Good luck with it, i realy hope you get it sorted soon.

Anthony.

LOL!

Are you talking about wives or mistakes?

i think ill have to accept your offer. although i am putting a hold on this right now, I'm going tomorrow to have a de quervains release. so my arm will be wrapped up for a while. But ill PM you and we can plan on something. what kind of beer do you like?

FIXED!! awesome! i drained out the oil in the motor, gauged all of the valves. intake #1 and intake #6 were tight, gauge wouldn't fit. the rest were good. put things back together. let the motor warm up to temp then started to add the oil back in there and checking the dipstick every quart. took the car out on a long drive.
WOW! what a difference. full power and purrs like it did when i last had it tuned by a shop.

i want to thank you guys for all your input and help.

Well done 4ton, glad you were able to figure it all out.

good job, now go and treat yourself to one of those world-famous NW microbrews!!!! I wish I had one now....

Glad your car is fixed. By the way... this is a stunning photo of your car. Really beautiful.

Outstanding!

Great job - we love happy endings :). I'm due for my first DIY valve adjustment, so tales like this are good learnings.

+1 You've got a good eye.