Do I Buy The 1981 Targa Without Documentation
 

A reputable local dealer who is casual with the breed produces a practically perfect (looking) up-north car without a single piece of paper. Title says one owner in the snowbelt, odometer says 31k, underpan is virtually unscarred, no evidence of leaks, no dash cracks, tool kit complete, a/c works, recent battery clean on an unsullied footprint, two tiny topical rust spots on pinch points, no fading (except the red heater lever handles)...

PPI by a qualified specialist on Friday afternoon. The sub-$25k (to be determined) purchase is intended to be a daily ride (more or less) - no track use or collectible interest.

What is the popular wisdom about a pretty much pristine looking car without receipts? Can one be too careful?

You don't need receipts. Nice to have but...

What you need is a super PPI - by a knowledgable tech that knows the car and the year.

Educate yourself with what could go wrong, what is wrong and what will be wrong down the road.

Make sure carfax is clean and history is clean (no salvage etc.)

Then purchase with confidence and enjoy.

well, if you are paying north of 25K for it, I would at least get it to pass all the PPI tests. Receipts are nice, but ... it's only an SC not a collectible where its life has to be justified.

Up north cars (I'm orginally from Minnesota for example), are typically not driven during the winter. Garage queens versus those stored outside are nice finds. I bought an '85 911 from a P-car mechanic in Tucson last year (a customer's car). No documentation from PO, but had the garage owner do a PPI. Very satisfied with the car.

I'd go for it with a solid PPI and if it looks like the car has been well cared for.

The only thing I would add to the above is unless your PPI guy is also a terrific, experienced Porsche body-man, my next stop would be to a body-man expert to evaluate the chassis to make sure that there is nothing hidden. Aside from that, hammer on the price. The couple of hundred dollars you spend evaluating the car prior to purchasing it will out you at ease regardless of your decision. GLWTP

Agree with all of the above. Paper trail is nice, but difficult to find in a car this old. A good PPI should take care of it.

What's your goal for this car? Daily driver? show car? Something in between?

When I bought my '86 targa, I found that many of the issues I had with the car stemmed from lack of use (rather than too much use). Once I made my targa a daily driver (3k per year), its issues have dramatically decreased.

I would NOT be scared of or concerned about mileage on a properly maintained 911. For $20k, you can get a very well sorted carrera with documented history that is current on repairs and maintenance. Even with the low mileage on the sc you're looking at, deferred maintenance (or simply sitting around) can cause issues that could be $$$ and detract from the enjoyment of driving and using this car

I bought my 81 with a two inch stack of receipts without a professional ppi.

Looked like yours probably does and ran great. Broken head stud. I have service receipts from Kremer in Atlanta and the stud did not even care. Sheared anyway.

Get the PPI mechanic to pull the lower valve covers and torque the studs to 25 ft lbs on top of the other stuff.

I would not spend north of $20K for an SC without documentation. If it is under $20K, looks good and the PPI works out maybe $15K to $18K, but without pictures it is hard to say.

I agree.

+1.
25k for a no paper trail SC is over-priced IMO
There are good clean 911s 78-86 for a closer market price point to choose from.

What is the popular wisdom about a pretty much pristine looking car without receipts?

looks can be deceiving.
If you are not that experienced with Porsche then better to buy a Porsche from a Porsche person.
A Porsche person keeps records and receipts so when selling, questions like this do not have to be asked.

25 for an 81 with no docs. is a lot of money.
30000 miles are not a lot of miles but sometimes that can be more of a problem than a car that is always driven.

Another point to concider is that a low mile pristine model usually has some one waiting for it to sell. neighbours,some one local. some one who knows the car.
the fact that this is not the case and a dealer has it (and it is not a trade in) would be a red flag to me .
Of course there are exceptions to everything but that must be concidered because dealers are well known for getting cars from "out of town" which have a history that cannot be easily checked out.
Check to see if the car came from an auction.
I don't mean to rain on the parade but just be cautious.

wow - why can't you buy a nice documented SC for $15,000??? - you'd have $10k to spend on maintenance & upgrades

is the dealer giving you a 3 year warranty or something?

THIS is a very good question! The seller initially asked $25k and that melted a fair bit after a PPI was scheduled. So, Friday, the PPI and an actual offer have yet to arrive. :D

The OP answers this question in the opening post! :rolleyes:

I would have thought 25k for an sc in the states would get you a mint sc.
If I was spending top dollar I would want docs on service, rebuild even original log books.
Dealers are purely sales people and will tell you want you want to hear.
There is Alot that can go wrong if the car has never had the proper maintanence and if you don't have a single reciept for any work done chances are it's because it has never been done.
Now the car might be great but I wouldn't pay top dollar for something that may need Alot of 30 year old parts replaced and you don't know for sure.
Now its your money and its Only my opinion and I speak from experience. These cars start to get expensive when you have to start fixing things.

Good luck and whatever decision you make I'm sure is the right one for you.

Cheers
Nick

One more thing -- My friend's '82 sc was delivered from the factory with an 85 mph speedometer. Not sure if the '81 had one too. I mention this because my friend's 85mph speedometer is on his desk, showing 1850 miles (the mileage when he swapped in a 160mph speedometer).

If the '81 came from the factory with an 85mph speedo and now has a 160mph speedo, there's no telling how many miles it accumulated before the 160mph speedo was swapped in (or if the 160mph speedo's odometer was adjusted to reflect those miles).

mileage is essentially unimportant

if the motor is cared for (oil changes) then it can easily run 300,000 miles
if the trans. tests ok, you are fine there

everything rubber in the suspension has to be rebuilt because of age, not because of mileage

In my opinion to find out whether the mileage is really 30k should not be too hard. The general condition of the car, especially inside tells a lot. I have a real 50K 79' SC that I bought new and has been garaged ever since. Everywhere, in the engine bay, in the front trunk, the carpet, the seats, etc. tell the story. All the inside and outside paint is original and still looks new, not a speck of rust, hardly any dirt, oil residue. Just the proper amount of light patina. Under the car, the same story. That all should verify a mechanical inspection. I only drove it for 50k miles because in 82 I got a Landcruiser that has been so reliable as a daily Los Angeles city driver, parker, and hauler, so that the P-car is used rarely thereafter. But the excitement, when on the road, is the same as when I first got it.

I would not buy an SC without having the PPI include pulling the lower valve covers to check for broken head studs. A leak down and compression checks may not uncover this common SC problem. Search the multitude of broken head stud threads. It may be an additional cost for the PPI but money well spent to assure yourself that there is not a problem with the dilivar lower head studs.

Thor

Will the seller put you in touch with the last owner? Who might put you in touch with the prior owner?

Way too much was way too vague about this '81 SC (above) to leave me comfortable; the only thing for sure was the asking price and that was way too high.

I feel lucky I found the Pelican Forums and, happily, bought better in every possible respect from a member here. I ended up with a black/linen '87 Targa (below) in very good trim - car of my dreams way back when and now. Wife even likes the wind noise. She sees the targa experience as safer and equal to or better than the GoldWing. I'm losing the bike and my beloved Mercedes 350SD (300,000 miles over the last 16-years, 570,000 on the odometer) but a daily-driver targa is a fair swap. :D

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-B...0/P1010349.JPG

Good for you! :)

I hate to say this, but I bought my '86 911 based on a GREAT PPI (leak down, comp., the works). I've had it for 9 years and it now has over 100k miles. It's the most reliable car I've owned!

No records is an indicator, not a rule (IMHO).

Al

So the poll (OP) and your valued advice indicates. It just didn't work that way for me on this car, on that day.

one word...leakdown

I bought mine .. no PPI .. almost no paper work ... but paid a lot less ...

3 years later .. about 15 K miles ... did a tune up three oil changes and have had very good luck ... I always have done my own work and have had an issue or two but (KNOCK KNOCK) nothing to bad .... I do have a long history with aircools etc ... the other air cooled

but my opinion 25k no papers I would not do it ..

I could literally buy a few of mine for that price and have money for a tune up at the dealer left ...