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need help on labor & parts cost '84 Carrera

I do my own work, could you guys help me on the going rate at a P shop to have this done, be good to know on re-sale Remove engine and transmission
Remove all cylinder head studs and replace with SUPERTEC studs ($610).
Replace all valve stem seals (Teflon).
Lap all valves, intake and exhaust.
Lap heads to cylinders.
Replace cylinder base gaskets.
Install RS type seals on rocker shafts.
Adjust all valves.
Replace all timing chain ramps (guides).
Time cams.
Replace camshaft seals, cam tower gaskets and cover gaskets.
Replace oil drain return O ring seals.
Replace rear crankshaft seal (behind engine pulley).
Replace flywheel seal (crankshaft seal behind flywheel).
Replace oil light sender.
Replace oil thermostat O ring seal (green).
Replace engine vent cover gasket.
Replace engine vent hose.
Replace rocker cover gaskets.
Resurface flywheel.
Replace pilot bearing.
Replace throw out bearing.
Replace clutch (OEM Sachs).
Replace pressure plate (OEM Sachs).
Replace transmission input shaft seal.
Replace throw out bearing fork.
Replace throw out bearing fork shaft seals.
Replace clutch lever helper spring.
Replace clutch cable.
Adjust clutch.
Replace bushings on throttle bell crank on transmission.
Replace rod end on throttle link from trans to engine.
Replace spark plugs (NGK).
Replace engine cover shock.
Replace rear engine mount (PORSCHE OE)

Old 02-12-2012, 02:02 AM
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Why spend the time if youre not doing the guides and measuring stems and cutting valve faces,
If it aint broke why change it? Looks like you want to do busy work.
Bruce
Old 02-12-2012, 03:22 AM
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because it wasn't needed
Old 02-12-2012, 04:24 AM
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Bruce is right. For you to get any appreciable monetary consideration for your work, you need to include replacing the guides and the obligatory valve seat work. Otherwise, you're only replacing gaskets and the only consideration you might get would be for the clutch replacement. Most estimates I've seen on this board use $100 per hour for the US, not sure how that translates to Canadian dollars.

I think that most people buying a car like this know that there will be maintenance involved, that's a known and accepted fact. But most people, especially those less mechanically inclined, want to buy a car that they can drive around for a while, essentially not need maintenance for while. I tend to believe that an informed buyer will be aware that valve guides is a common issue. I also tend to believe that most buyers will think they are sufficiently educated to be able to tell if the clutch is in good condition just by driving the car. So your list to most people will look like regular maintenance and will not give you much value wise over a car that has not had this done to it. However, replace the valve guides, and I think you will add some real value to your car over one that has not had that done.

Anyway, just my 2 cents.
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Old 02-12-2012, 04:28 AM
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Pharlap, it looks like you have about an hour or so worth of parts cost estimating,plus labor times. Then you have to factor in unforeseen needs that may occur .I doubt a professional shop would spend the necessary time to give you an accurate estimate if they knew you were going to do your own work.. If you are capable of completing the aforementioned service, then you are certainly capable of determining the parts labor breakdown.
That said, if you are thinking of creating a resale factor, one would have to be aware of the Professional Porsche shop rebuild versus work done by previous owner... How many miles are on your motor??? why are you replacing the head studs . Are they broken??? A receipt from a Qualified Repair shop is one thing," I did it myself" is another. If you just want to ballpark it I'd say about 6000 bucks.
Old 02-12-2012, 04:30 AM
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Thanks everyone, I was just wanting ball park figure. The car has 69K, everything very nice shape. While doing the clutch and adjusting valves I found a broken stud and had another "PING OFF" while engine was out so I replaced all the studs. Valve guides were fine. All the other stuff was the "while you are in there" stuff. Plus 27 yrs is a long time for seals, etc. I think if I was looking for a car and the PO who is a proffeional mechanic 30+ years did it with receits and photos it would mean something to me, but reading this forum I realize I do look at things differently than some on here.
Old 02-12-2012, 05:59 AM
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Surprised to hear that you had a head stud issue. I thought these engines were somewhat impervious to that problem.It sounds like you did a very thorough job, and if you have been a mechanic for 30 plus years it would indeed impact the resale value of your car. Why do you think the stud broke???Corrosion? poor quality steel?
Old 02-12-2012, 07:13 AM
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tepps, these cars (911's) have a long history of head stud issues. The factory has done several different alloy's and recomendations. I have noticed that some of the engine builders are back to square one and recommend the regular steel studs. This is one of those things that baffle me about Porsche, such brillance and quality about most things and then let some things run on and on. Its not that it isn't done, ther are some excellent after market remedies, ARP, Raceware and my favorite Supertec. Motorcycles and aircraft have years of success with high performance air cooled engines. It seems they (Porsche) do have problems with alloys, ie. Magnesium cases, valve guides, head studs.
Old 02-12-2012, 08:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pharlap71 View Post
I think if I was looking for a car and the PO who is a proffeional mechanic 30+ years did it with receits and photos it would mean something to me
It definitely means something. Maybe not an Andial rebuild differential but definitely some value. Especially if you can talk lucidly about what you did and it holds up under scrutiny.

The valve guides may have been replaced already allowing them to check out ok? How did you determine the valves, seats etc only needed lapping.

The folks here can be tough. They are a good sounding board, though.

Last edited by Bob Kontak; 02-12-2012 at 08:38 AM..
Old 02-12-2012, 08:36 AM
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Bob, they probably didn't need lapping, I was replacing very old brittle valve stem seals and I am old school, I like to lapp my valves, I like that dull grey ring so I can see exactly how my valve seat seal looks. I guess a run over from motorcycles. The heads probably didn't need lapping either except maybe the one that had a broken stud, but I like that too, it reminds me of working on Deutz diesels which also does not use a head gasket.
Old 02-12-2012, 08:49 AM
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Yet another Dilivar head stud question

This thread does not say that problems are gone 1984 forward.
Old 02-12-2012, 08:52 AM
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Assuming the valves stems were free of any slop in the guides.

One downside to not replacing the guides is that if they had never been replaced you have the original guide's metal vs. new fancier alloys.
Old 02-12-2012, 08:59 AM
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Bob, I'm not sure about the Divilar link, I have only bought one Divilar stud in my life. I do not use a P shop for repairs, the only independent one I would use is in Atlanta (300miles), I just wanted someone on here that had paid to have this done to give me an idea of what it would cost. Like they say on here every car is a $20,000.00 car. We all make decisions based on our experience, I know shops do overkill a lot, and I totaly understand, I was in the business a long time, your reputation depends on no come backs, irrate customers etc.
Old 02-12-2012, 09:59 AM
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How you do it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pharlap71 View Post
I do my own work, could you guys help me on the going rate at a P shop to have this done, be good to know on re-sale Remove engine and transmission
Remove all cylinder head studs and replace with SUPERTEC studs ($610).
Replace all valve stem seals (Teflon).
Lap all valves, intake and exhaust.
Lap heads to cylinders.
Replace cylinder base gaskets.


pharlap,

How you do you lap the cylinder heads to cylinders of 911's? I've done valve lapping several times in my engine rebuilds but never once with heads. Could someone share their experience and thought about this? Thanks.

Tony
Old 02-12-2012, 10:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pharlap71 View Post
your reputation depends on no come backs, irrate customers etc.
That is a good point.

Yours did break, though and the only reason I posted the link was to show that the 3.2 dilivars are not free from criticism even though they are coated.
Old 02-12-2012, 10:24 AM
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Tony, apply lapping compound (fine) on cylinder where it contacts head, and lapp back and forth till you get uniform flat pattern all around mating surface. I lapp a back and forth and also rotating around and end up where head will be when installed. I hope this helps.
Old 02-12-2012, 10:27 AM
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Bob, my car actually had steel on both sides. Good point though on the Divilars. It seems to me, I may be totaly wrong , cars with low milage (69K) have more stud "PING" than cars that are used more. If that is true maybe corrosion IS a factor. But I tell you the steel Porsche studs are hard, vise grips will not even bite in, you have to grind a flat edge. I can't imagine what the Brinnel hardness is!

Old 02-12-2012, 10:35 AM
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