How to make 911ST in steel??

82SC · 03-21-2002, 11:56 AM

Well I have been researching making a 911 ST out of an early shell

I know the ST has 9" flares front and rear...

GT Racing sells FRONT: RSR/ST fender REAR: RS/SC/ST flare or rear quarter

are these all truly the same?
I thought the early cars like the ST/RS/RSR had the more rounded flares...I know my SC has a more squared off rear flare...

But how do I do these in steel?
can I install SC flares all around?? and round the edges?
or is the flare completely different?

I have heard of a source for steel ST flares in Germany...does anyone have leads or web pages?

any other ideas???
I do not really want to go with glass fenders, and flares....hmmmmmmmmmmm

jriera · 03-21-2002, 12:46 PM

I was the one (or one of the many) following the lead of Raceline in Germany for 'proper' flares.. so far I have hit dirt.. I send two faxes and got no response.. I had my office in Germany track the name, number, street address, etc.. also no success.. Looks like Raceline is no longer in business (or at least in Germany)

I guess that 'perfect' ST is no longer possible.. so far I plan to go with 9" steel flares front and rear (I was also thinking on GT or Reenspeed fiber panels but don't think is a good idea for daily/weekend driving).. I know that the existing flares are different than the original ST's.. but so be it!!

Regarding tire sizes.. I will try to find 9x15's front and rear (yes, I know, I'm crazy)

Hope this helps

Randy W · Randy W's Garage

It's hard to believe Raceline is no longer in business - they have remained very low profile for many years and have never advertised because their reputation for preparing historic racing 911s is second to none. I contacted Raceline a couple of months ago and received their catalog and a note from Herr Feustal himself. I hope we have not lost another great resource for early 911s.

Although these may not be readily available, the ST flares could be fabricated from steel by a great body shop man from all the photos available of their contours. I am sure an accurate ST clone will appear at Cambria within three years - if not, I may be forced to build one!

Early_S_Man · 03-21-2002, 06:30 PM

MJ,

Is this what you are trying/hoping for??? Or, close?

82SC · 03-21-2002, 10:46 PM

Sweet....what a cool car...the small flares all around are a perfect blend muscle and subtle beauty....

I hope I can find a solution to fiberglass....hmmmm

hey warren...I sent an email about engine opinions...did you get it? I have been having some email problems....if not I will PM you my questions....or maybe you are too buys answering all the other hepless PPBBSers who got to you...but thatnks for the article...

MJ

03-21-2002, 11:15 PM

I had a 73S with steel ST flares, front and rear. My friend found the car that way, a previous owner must have done it. It also had a factory RS motor which is now in my 72S. I was going to keep the front fenders as they are the same as the fronts on the 73RSR.

82SC · 03-28-2002, 02:06 PM

what about this for a hairbrained idea

if I start with a car with SC flares in the rear...

buy 2 new turbo fenders...cut off the front, weld in cut pieces (the turnsignal part) from an earlier fender...

that way I have 9" flares in the front and rear...the fronts would look like early 911 fenders with the modifided turn signal cutout...
I wouldn't have to worry about fitting H4's brackets...
Flares would be stamped not welded...

them maybe a really good body guy could round the enge of the fender lips to get that RSR/ST look...hmmmmmmmmmm

James Avis · 03-28-2002, 02:42 PM

AlanUK is coming round to my place tomorrow to pick up his 2.2S 1970 he has agreed to bring his camera and will take photos of of a real ST ,this is a customer ST biult by the factory and we are told the only RHD ST made .when we got the car it had 4 layers of wings welded and pop riveted these were removed and our body man made new front and rear wings ,useing my works car as a model Alan IK will post the photos as soon as he can

82SC · 03-29-2002, 01:40 AM

one question that has not been answered is what is the difference between the different flares???

FRONT
RSR
930
ST

all are 9"...the ST and RSR have rounder lips...but what about the overall shape...I don't have any good comparison pictures

REAR
RS
ST
SC

Again they are all 9" any differences???

MJ

Rick Cabell · 03-31-2002, 07:14 AM

I am starting the process of building a ST replica. As I stated in a similar post last week,I have found a firm in Germany who builds exact replica ST flares and bumpers from original molds. The problem is 2 fold.
1) the flares are glass not steel!
2) the price is crazy!! $4500. for a pair of front fenders and rear arches,and front,rear bumpers.
ST, RS,and SC flares are all differant.
I will be at Techno Classica in Essen Germany on wedsday and will check up on Raceline with my Euro contacts. This is the largest vintage and collector car show in the world.
Last year Rooke Racing in Germany bought the last know set of OEM steel ST flares from Freisinger Motorsport in Karlsruhe Germany for 18,000Dm, equates to about $8000 at the time!!!!
I will report back when I return from Essen.

82SC · 03-31-2002, 07:26 AM

well I think if I want to do it in steel, I will just use the 930/SC/RS 9" flares all around and see if I can find a good body man to round the lips...I am sure he is going to think I am a whacko...but aren't all porsche fanatics big fat whackos???

Rick Cabell · 03-31-2002, 07:57 AM

Your idea is on the right track. The ST flares have a differant shape altogether. It's not just a differance in the lip, the arch has a completly differant contour. I would be willing to buy the glass ones and have a panel beater make some, but I don't know where to find a good panel beater!
Maybe I'll try Google???

Randy W · Randy W's Garage

Thanks for the info, Rick. Sounds like you might have a market for steel ST flares that are based on the fiberglass repros. I would be interested, as well. The vintage show sounds great - Have fun and best of luck to you,

pwd72s · 03-31-2002, 03:47 PM

Randy, I just e mailed Rick...or at least I hope I did? Had trouble returning to the board after doing so. Anyway, several years ago, I picked up a card at a swap meet I attended...a panel beating firm. On display were replacement panels they'd made for British cars, Rolls and Jag, looked like...card said they work in either aluminum or steel. Name of the firm? THE PANELBEATER...they were then located in Eugene, OR. Let me know if you'd like this info, I'll e-mail it to you.

82SC · 01:58 AM

any progress on ST flares...

I may have a buyer for my car...and that gives me a chunk of change to start my ST-ish early 911 project!!!

I am assuming it is safe to say that GT racing products are not the right shape since he combines SC/RS/ST flares into one group...

also I read an article by Bruce Anderson:

These cars were known by their internal designation the 911ST. From 1970 through 1972 a series of these cars were built for both rallying and GT racing. The first 911STs built to compete in this class had 2.3 liter engines (2247 cc, which was 85 mm bore and 66 mm stroke) and then they were expanded to 2.4 liters (there were two versions 2380 cc 87.5 with mm bore and 66 mm stroke and 2395 cc with 85 mm bore and 70.4 mm stroke) and finally 2.5 liters engine (again their were two versions 2492 cc with 86.7 mm bore and 70.4 mm stroke and 2464 cc with 89 mm bore and 66 mm stroke) The cars built in 1970 and 1971 utilized the 66 mm stroke will most of the later cars built in 1972 used the 70.4 mm stroke.

The 911ST was different from the standard production model in that thin gauge sheet metal was used for the roof panel, for both rear side panels and for the seat pan and interior back and side panels. In the interest of weight saving they also deleted the seat slide supports on the central tunnel, all standard seat belt mounting points, the heater ducts, the ashtray, the glove box door, and the tubes for the front and rear hood latches as well as the front and rear latch mechanisms. The decorative under door and bumper moldings were also left off, as were the fog light recess covers, front torsion bar protectors, the rear torsion bar covers and the passenger side sun visor. Sheet metal joints were not filled, none of the sound deadening material was used and even the paint was kept as thin as possible to help keep the weight down.

They also made parts available to further modify and lighten these 911s’s such as a fiberglass hood, front fenders, and front and rear bumpers, aluminum skinned doors with a steel frame, and Plexiglass for all windows except the windshield which was also available in thinner light glass. Optional 80 liter or 110 liter fuel tanks were available with a large filler neck up through the front hood were available in place of the standard 62 liter tank with its fender mounted filler. A strut tower brace was installed to add stiffness to the front trunk area. For racing 7" and 9" by 15 inch wheels were available.

So is is safe to assume the ST's came in steel from the factory, but people also replaced the front fenders with glass to save weight??

I think I may have to figure a way to cut off flares from other cars and try to mimic the ST look...I don't think my project budget allows for actual steel repros...I am not trying to build an exact ST...I just like the look...

But keep me updated!!

MJ

Alan.UK · 04-05-2002, 02:07 AM

Hi all,

I visited James Avis (see earlier post) last week and had the pleasure to look round a real RHD ST (nice). The replacement wings were as James says, modelled from his own works car. Unfortunately while I was there the batteries in my digital camera died so I only managed to take two shots other wise I would have taken 100's. I will hopefully be visiting him again soon so I will make sure the batteries are fully charged. These images have been massively degraded to they can be sent, if you need high res pics send me a private mail.

Alan.UK

I went to just picked up my new 1971 RHD 911S, all the ST talk is getting me thinking_grin.

jriera · 04-05-2002, 04:58 AM

MJ, I talked with Hank at GT-Racing and the front fenders (027) and the rear flares (036) are molded out of his former ST (the one on the catalog).. so I will say they are a close as you can get.

I plan to but the front fenders and see how they fit/look.

Hope this helps. Regards

steveW · steveW's Garage

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the ST come out in two options. One with standard wheel arches and used in rallies and the flared version which was also used in rallies as well as on the track.

I think I'll build my ST replica from a std T shell - in fact, I'll just call my T an ST replica!

But I also think the flares are orgasmic, cool, sweet, nice, smooth etc.

Rgroupie · 04-19-2002, 01:01 AM

any updates on the ST????

could more fiberglass be laid on the ones from GT racing to strengthen them???

hmmmm....

Also I question the GT racing glass pieces as being exact replicas...I have heard the RS and the ST parts are not the same...but Gt racing seems to use the rear RS and the ST interchangably and the front fenders as RS and ST....

I have a feeling that the front are the same as the RS
But the rears are unlike SC, carrera, RS...

too bad restoration design doesn't stamp out all the different flares..

MJ