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BlueWing's Avatar
 
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Help ID this AC system

While the motor is out I am thinking of removing the AC. It is an aftermarket set up but looks nicely set up. A lot of rear weight and I have never even tried to use it or repair it in the eight years I've had the car.

If anyone can ID it as a worthwhile system I might try and resurrect it to a functioning system (wifes preference). Up until now I only used the car to keep it running and excessed but this year that will change. Presently in the N.Y mountains but will retire with me to N.C..

If the hoses are not compatible with R134 that will probably be a big driver to remove.

Here are a few pics.





There is a half condenser on the engine lid and an other with an electric fan in the left rear wheel well behind the plastic cover. and the rest in the smugglers box with a small receiver/drier and valve.

Thanks - Terry

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79 SC Minerva Blue ROW
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Old 02-20-2012, 07:04 PM
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Not sure about the condenser, but the SD-507 is an R-12 compressor, the same as on my car. Works well, but discontinued. If you do remove it, please ping me before disposing of it.
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Old 02-20-2012, 07:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
While the motor is out I am thinking of removing the AC. It is an aftermarket set up but looks nicely set up. A lot of rear weight and I have never even tried to use it or repair it in the eight years I've had the car.

If anyone can ID it as a worthwhile system I might try and resurrect it to a functioning system (wifes preference). Up until now I only used the car to keep it running and excessed but this year that will change. Presently in the N.Y mountains but will retire with me to N.C..

If the hoses are not compatible with R134 that will probably be a big driver to remove.



There is a half condenser on the engine lid and an other with an electric fan in the left rear wheel well behind the plastic cover. and the rest in the smugglers box with a small receiver/drier and valve.

Thanks - Terry
looks like you've got a hose disconnected by the air intake thing
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Old 02-20-2012, 07:28 PM
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If I removed the system I would seal everything off package it safely and store it for the future. My wife hates that due to storage space but it is something I do with all my projects. The few I part with I always include the original parts. I think that some of the parts can be eventually rebuilt in a future restoration.

Could the Sanden unit be converted to R134? I have converted a 85 Jetta Coupe sucessfully, just the hoses were leakers requiring seasonal top off.

The missing hose near the filter snorkel is part of the soon to be deleted heater blower.

Any other input? I personally think dumping all the rear added on weight would be a good thing. With the compressor, grill condenser, condenser with an electric fan in the wheel well and hoses all adding up. The wife thinks air is a good thing and cost me a new car for her. But this was her car before she gave it to me (even thou I bought it for her as well). I am just trying to put together some evidence to convince her it is in the best interest of the car.

Terry
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Old 02-21-2012, 06:12 AM
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That is indeed a Sanden 507 compressor. It can run either R-12 or 134a.

As for the hoses, I've no idea if they are barrier hoses or not.
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Old 02-21-2012, 06:46 AM
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Maybe not 134a, but definitely should take FR-12 (Harold Electric Co. specializing in Ag & Mobile Products)

Biggest problem with the switchover is that the Thermal Expansion valve will have to be replaced to make best use of 134. A pita, to say the least. If you do the switch, I recommend looking at replacing the entire evaporator with a new Griffiths unit. A thing of beauty and substantially larger. Besides, if you pull the a/c box you might as well properly renovate it.

I'd also take a good look at that rusty pipe coming out of the compressor. One rust-through pinhole and the refrigerant is gone.

As for usefulness, I added air to my '71. Either that or it would never get driven in the summer. Removing a few pounds from the tail can't be a bad thing, but...
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Old 02-21-2012, 01:27 PM
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That rear condenser is what i'd get rid of and put a full length one in. From the condition of things your best bet is to replace everything. The whole a/c system only weighs about 40lbs so not much savings there.
Call griffiths.
What unit do you have inside the car?
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Old 02-21-2012, 02:27 PM
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Here is what I have in the smugglers box.



I still need to find the receiver/drier and evaporator. I just started to tear into the motor so in the next few days I'll dig deeper. Also I need to research the hose manufacturer and part number for what they are.

Terry
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Old 02-21-2012, 06:35 PM
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The evaporator is under the fan, the rec/drier is under the drivers side fender. Whats your vent assembly look like?
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Old 02-22-2012, 05:40 AM
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Have not found the receiver/drier yet, nothing in the wheel well, hoses run along drivers side and up into the smugglers box area.

Here is the other electric fan/condenser in the drivers side rear wheel well:



And the controls inside the car:




There are no additional vents other than the original center dash and small side vents.

Terry
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Old 02-22-2012, 11:26 AM
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The compressor is a Sanden 507 and appears to have flare fittings (you can tell when you remove one of the two hoses) and likely R12 service ports. Normally we mount this compressor so that the hose and service ports point toward the oil filter to reduce the chance of the hose fittings contacting the deck lid condenser. What refrigerant is in the system? Assume R12 unless somebody tried an alternative refrigerant that is sharing the same type of service port (a “no no” but they do it sometimes). After removing the refrigerant from the system I would remove the compressor, turn the ports over a clean can, rotate the outer hub and see what comes out, inspect the oil for contamination; cross your fingers that it works.

Appears in the photo view that one hose is molded or embossed with the old SAE J51 standard which was typically common with R12. The current standard is SAE J2064 which has a lower permeation rate suitable for R134a as well as R12. Another hose is printed with the name of Diavia, know presently as Delphi Diavia which currently markets ac systems various markets (vans, buses, agriculture, European and Asian vehicle brands). Not knowing the condition or manufacturing date of the hoses I would budget for a complete new set along with low-high binary pressure switch.

Drier -get a new one.

Condenser in the LH rear fender. Refrigerant coil might still be good, not a high performance unit but it could work; can’t tell how well air moves in or out. Keep an eye on the fan motor. Check all the mounting hardware; you have some rust.

Condenser over the engine deck lid. A serpentine unit however this portion of the condenser function may not work as well as intended. The photo appears to lead one to believe there is a large air gap on the LH side which means air drawn in by the engine’s cooling fan may or may not be routed through the coil. If you plan on using the funky unit you’ll need review this and place baffles on the sides so air must travel through rather than around the unit.

Your missing your sound insulation between the rear seat and the engine, get one of these from the host: part number PEL-APBZ-ESPULT-B or something similar.

Other things: need to review the evaporator, blower fan, vent panels, thermostat and fan controls, other ac hoses. You may need more vents.

Prediction: high probability any type of refrigerant will leak out, low probability of satisfaction with system reliability and performance .. But, ya never know!

Helpful reading:

The Mr. Ice Project
Old 02-22-2012, 01:54 PM
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In other words throw it all out and replace with good new components. Otherwise you'll just throw good money after bad.
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Old 02-22-2012, 04:58 PM
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Thanks for all input here.

kuehl, I remember reading the story quite a few years ago. When my wife was driving the car she wanted the AC operational and had gotten some info. The car needed more so the AC was put off. Cost me a new car for her but I got to keep the SC. So during my engine drop I was on the fence about repairing or removing.

Well the net of it is the AC is aftermarket and not the cleanest install. So if I needed AC in the future the best route would be go the newest technology. Which should be more efficient and better designed.

So I guess some more engine bay clean up is in order.

Thanks again for the input.

Terry
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Old 02-22-2012, 05:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RSTarga View Post
In other words throw it all out and replace with good new components. Otherwise you'll just throw good money after bad.
The question is what is the risk in terms of time and materials.

If the car owner is doing all the work its simply materials and
for the moment we'll assume the evacuation, charge and test is farmed out
or done by a shop.

To "test" the system in terms of function and performance you would want to:
1) Do as many visual inspections as possible:
a) Look at hoses for signs of brittleness, cracking
b) Fix any questionable supports, brackets, hose clamps
c) Remove compressor, inspect residual refrigerant oil for signs of contamination
2) Test electrical functions of rear condenser fan, evaporator blower motor, compressor clutch
3) Pull a vacuum on the system to check for 'gross leaks'; this will not guarantee there are no leaks however its SOP in the process
4) Assuming you had no gross leaks under vacuum, liquid flush condensers, evaporator (TEV removed) and hoses as the system looks 'questionable'.
5) Replace drier and any orings or crush washers used on flare fittings.
6) Have system professionally evacuated, charged and tested. R34a with ester oil.
7) Test drive the system in highest heat and humidity available.
Estimated cost risk assuming no major components are replaced is about $300-$400 to evaluate the design of the system. Reliability is another issue.

On the other hand if things need to be replaced, improved, upgraded, and/or you don't have the time or capability to do some of the work yourself ... then costs typically run in the $2k to $3k range or more for a high reliable system with excellent performance.

Before you proceed any further I would evaluate the entire car in terms of necessary repairs, minimum personal changes or fixes. And then, if the car is
a "keeper" (it has value or love), then I would move further on to all of your options (designs, manufacturers and suppliers) in terms of AC
Old 02-22-2012, 06:16 PM
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Sorry to resurrect this old thread. Trying to ID this compressor. Pretty sure it’s a Sanden, maybe a 508 or similar? The rear ports are causing a clearance issue with the airbox cover that I need to resolve. Are these ports used for recharging? Any ideas for solving my issue, from a different airbox cover to changing the back plate on the compressor?

Old 04-23-2018, 11:05 AM
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Yes, those are R134a service port adapters screwed on the original R12 service ports, and you need them to evacuate, charge and test they system.

The straight narrow diameter aluminum one is the low side service port.
It is missing its protective dust cap (probably because of clearance issues),
and over time debris can get inside the service port; not good.
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Old 04-23-2018, 12:07 PM
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Great info, thanks. Any idea for a solution? Any way to relocate those ports to alleviate the clearance issue? Purchase a new different compressor with service ports on the side?

Seems like maybe cutting a small hole in the airbox cover would be cheaper and easier, although I’d want an intact replacement for whenever (if ever) I sell the car.
Old 04-23-2018, 12:17 PM
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Depending up where they are against the air box, and the type of plastic the air box is made of, you may be able to heat up the air box (heat gun) to soften the plastic and reform an inward dimple for clearance.

The Kuehl 507 compressor has the service ports on its side.
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Old 04-23-2018, 12:28 PM
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Heating and reforming the airbox cover is a great idea! I’ll give it a shot and also check out the Kuehl 507. Thanks again!

Old 04-23-2018, 12:31 PM
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