Should I buy a 911 for regular use?
 

Hello everyone,

I am thinking about getting another car for my wife and I...and would love to have an older 911...say between 1973 and 1983.

My question is this:

Is it possible to find a 911 under 11k that is reliable enough to drive everyday and not need a zillion bucks in repairs and the sort? If so, what model/year and what should i look for as far as potential problems? If not, do you have a suggestion for me? I am a minor mechanic (i have a 74 beetle that I drive everyday) and can handle at least some repairs myself. I realize that this is a big question :)

Thanx for your input.

There are no 20+ year-old cars that will be reliably repair-free. I bought my '83 SC for $13.5K. At that price I should have gotten one with no head stud problems but I was (and still am) an idiot and I did not get a PPI. Therefore, this year I rebuilt the engine.

Each of the roughly two years I have owned the car I have put about $2000 into parts. This is causing the car's effective age to decrease, and that is my goal.

IF you shop carefully, intelligently and patiently, you can find a good 911 for $11K. You may still have to put a few hundred dollars in repair parts into it every year or two. And there is that chance that you could buy one for $9K that needs nothing for a half-dozen years.

I suppose the most important single factor is the Pre-Purchase Inspection.

I purchased my 78SC three years ago. The entire drive train had been rebuilt. The car has 185,000 miles and I drive the car every day as my daily driver. This includes frequent trips in stop and go traffic from Orange County to Los Angeles, Victorville and San Bernadino. Aside from general maintenance, the car has been more reliable than any other car I have ever owed, included the Japanese imports.

Whether you want to dump money into the cart is up to you. Find a clean example and drive it with regular maintance and you should have a reliable car for every day driving. If you read this board you would probably think these cars are always broken down. In fact, most of the threads are self induced projects to make a great car even better. This is the downfall. TWhile these cars are great, the Porsche will have you wanting to try and improve the facotry handleing and power. This gets expensive.

For a DIY'er, these older cars are very friendly.

You should be prepared to treat your SC as a 'hobby' car. As per other postings, they are wonderful cars but old and at the high end of the maintenance cycle. You need to adjust your expectations accordingly.

All my Porsches have been highly reliable daily drivers. But costly in either time or money to maintain to that level. They are definitely not a 'drive and forget' type of vehicle.

In terms of narrowing down your quest, find a copy of "The Used 911 Story" by Zimmerman. It's a good source of the common maladies known to the various model years of production. This board is also a phenominal resource - particularly the search function when you have a specific question.

To paraphrase Superdude and Car911, it's a rare 20+ year old cars that runs like a 2 year old car - stuff is wearing out. However, the success of Paul and others using their SC's and older cars as daily drivers means that with the right car, and the right preventative maintenance (which it sounds like you can handle) your goal is achievable.

"The right car" is a key part of that statement. Beyond a PPI, having some idea about the car's history and treatment will be a large factor. I'd rather have a 150K mile car with all records and evidence of a caring, conscientious PO than a 60K car that was "ridden hard and put down wet." Or if you are lucky like Paul (and me to an extent), the PO just put in all kinds of money to rebuild the motor and drivetrain, only to sell it a few months/years later with no real return on that expense.

I'm guessing that as the owner/operator of a '74 Beetle, you'd feel right at home in a Pcar - particularly in terms of HVAC. :p And the knobs will feel familiar too.

Good Luck!

Don

Hell yes buy one!

If you are a DIY'er like all the folks on this board and know how to get oil out from under your fingernails come Monday, then you will love ownership and never look back.

Don't even hesitate (after PPI, of course). They are cheaper than a new Honda, and a heck of alot easier to work on.

Just remember . . . I don't need no stinkin garage queen.

yeah go for the SC!

drive it whenever you can - dont let it sit.

bottom line, you're getting a classy car with power, performance, exotic styling and after all, there is no substitute

I bought an '81 SC in Jan 2000. Put 23k miles on it since then as my daily driver (no long trips in it yet). It has 130k on it now.

So far I've done only routine maintenance, a tranny rebuild, and a clutch replacement. The clutch had 90k miles on it when it was replaced.

That, and the occasional shot of freon to keep the A/C producing at least lukewarm air.

911s can certainly be daily drivers, but you need to budget for maintenance. It's less than a payment on a loan, though!

Just don't ever think that the air conditioning will be acceptable when the temp and humidity is up there. If you're using it to commute, leave early in the morning when the windows-down drive is very refreshing. After the drive home the 'pit stains on your shirt won't matter.

Go for it.

Chris.

There seem to be two kinds of older Porsches. The first are the ones that guys modify (wreck) or race (trash), but then there are the low mileage, pampered garage queens. Get one of the later and you've got a really good car. Remember it's a 25 year old car so you will need to spend some money on it. How much? Largely depends on the drive train condition. Knowledgeable pre-purchase inspection is a must. I have a 78SC that I drive every day, summer and winter in Calgary, Alberta. Once you've cleaned it up, the 911 is an extremely reliable car. As with any car, abuse (race or modify) it and you're costs will skyrocket!

c'mon, get on board with us
 

I bought mine as a daily driver. I am the 3rd owner. What attracted me to it was its 3.0 litre bullet proof engine and its impeccable service history. I haven't seen anything else of the same 22 year vintage that I'd feel secure with as a daily driver, let alone the prestige and character (soul) of a Porsche. Like my German Shepard - regular TLC and attention when she needs it and I am rewarded ten fold. Sure, there were (are) a few issues that I'll get the "Vet" to do, sometime or that I can mostly tinker with myself - and that's half the fun, the other half is driving it.

Owning an '83 SC, I'd love to be able to say they're as reliable as the day is long, but frankly, it's a 19-year-old car even though I just totally ground-up rebuilt it. When I choose to drive it the 120-mile round trip to Newark Airport, say, I make sure I do it for trips where the world won't end if I don't make it. If it's a super-important trip, I take the year-old Audi A4. On my last trip, a week ago, the oil-pressure warning light came on, had to stop at a Jersey Turnpike rest area and confirm that there wasn't something awful going on (sensor problem, I concluded), and that's the sort of thing that happens. I happen to consider it fun, a bit of a challenge, but for sheer reliabity, my wife and I have a couple of other cars.

Daily driver? Sure, if you have moderate-distance trips under relatively easy conditions and it's no big deal if occasionally you don't make it.

Stephan

hmm, '78-'80 bulletproof, reliable, less expensive than '80-'83. I drive my '88 everyday, very little problems. It's an old car, you'll have to fix things from time to time, get one that's been well cared for/comes with receipts/records, get a PPI. The AC won't be great if you live in a HOT area. It'll be more fun than you can shake a stick at. It is a Porsche parts aren't cheap, but with some ingenuity and work you can minimize expense. For example, When a fan motor breaks that sells for $200 many people will rebuild them or engineer another motor to work for $50 or less.

Take the plunge, you'll love it. You do only live once, or, at least, don't remember the fun you had in past lives. ;)

I drove my Porsche 84-911 for 3 years as my only car (about 20K miles a year, minimum) and it wore out so quick I stopped. Three first gears, clutch, transmisison housing (all in separate incidents) tires, shocks, clutch cables, CV joints, and overall wear and tear on the paint, the carpet, etc. It cost $3000 in parts a year or more to keep it up, and then you end up with an old car.

My experience is to drive it every week, but only as a second car. That will make it last a long time. I have never seen a Porsche that can be a carefree everyday car as reliable as my wife's Lexus, or my 98 BMW M3. That is my experience.

My 79SC is a daily driver and has been for over 4 years. Sure I've replaced some parts but I take the mindset that most of the parts replaced were at the end of a 22 year life cycle. Replacement parts are of the same quality (thus the price) and will probably outlive me.

The only reason I don't drive mine everyday, is I can't fit all my work things in it. It's easier on these cars to drive them, than let them sit.

No! I have to agree with yelcab1, Stephan Wilkinson, and anyone else that leans that way. It is a great second car that you can drive 2-3 times a week but not every day.

Buy a new Toyota if you want a reliable daily driver that is safer and has ICE COLD AIR so you can be comfortable in traffic. Mine now has 370K on the clock.

Depending on the type of people that you are....the quirky stuff will get to you and your wife if it is an everday driver. My wife drives a fully equiped V8 suv but she likes the porsche too. If she was given the choice though, the suv would win out even though the p is more of a driver.

your call

I have driven my SC daily for the past year year and a half and its not let me down once. Its been driven in every type of weather possible (Scotland remember) and copes better than the newer cars I've had in the past. However, I get my servicing done at a n official Porsche dealer, and its not cheap. Either is a car that scrapes 20mpg.

I am a recent porsche owner and plan on driving my car everyday, however I did end up keeping my other car as well. Very happy I did this becuse I have been working on the P-car almost from day one. Nothing wrong with the car but I have been updating and taking things apart to get better familar with it. Makes it so much easier if you have another car to run that way you don't have to piece everything back together in order to go up down for groceries.

I have mixed feelings on this. My Pcar is my daily driver, and I keep it in Garage-Queen shape. This means petty vandalism from creeps who don't understand. That is a PITA.

I agree that a cheap second car is a must. I am looking for an older Japanese pickup, maybe as nice as Supers...

John

John, I think you have a good plan there. The long life reputation of the Toyota pickemup is well deserved. After going for a time with the daily drivers, it makes driving the Porsche even more special, even more enjoyable, IMHO...

My daily driver is a '71T - coz I Luv it!!!!

Before that it was a 924, but since I got the 911, I can't see any reason why I should drive anything else.

When the revolution comes, we will all have to drive Porsches!

Good to see another VW junkie making the "upgrade" :)

If you can live with a Beetle DD then moving to a 911 DD is going to be EASY! Trust me you spend much much less time turning wrenches on a 911 than you do a Beetle. I sold my '69 Beetle for the 911.

I do not use my 911 as a DD, but could in a heart beat. Normally my '66 VW Bus is my DD.

Look at the post "Must sale my car" for a lead in your area.

I bought mine for $11,500 two years ago and have probably only put $250 in it so far. Granted I ripped the A/C out which is what most people spend money on anyway.


Good Luck!

Thanx everyone!!!!!!!!!!

I have been very lucky to get all of your opinions.

To honest...I think I am approaching the point of "who cares, I want one bad!"

But here is what I would say I've gathered from all of your advice:

1. Make sure I understand the history of the car and get a PPI.

2. Expect to work on it (no trouble here).

3. Expect it to not be as reliable as a new car (toyota being the recent example)...yet potentially very reliable for 25 year old car.

4. Go for an SC instead of an ealier one.

5. Always get the advice of those who know!!!

Thanks everyone. I'll not get rid of my beetle, but perhaps you will see another happy 911 owner on the road.

>I'll not get rid of my beetle<

Oh, you will! :)

A qualified yes.

Provided you can either afford high maintenance bills, or are prepared to do a lot of work yourself.

Typically an old car will drive fine for the first few months you own it, then a few problems will occur and you'll spend $$$ getting them sorted out.

Then either the car settles down and becomes very reliable, or more problems occur <sigh>.

My 73 T gets used every day, but I have had the transmission rebuilt, replaced a lot of the CIS components, the whole ignition system and generally spent quite a bit on other annoying troubles associated with age (e.g. two of the very expensive Fuchs wheels were so far out of true they had to be replaced).

Having said that, its never stranded me, I've always managed to get home...

But something that nobody's really touched on is attitude.

Let me try and explain:

Unlike the majority of people who use this board, I don't care what my car looks like - there are numerous paint scratches and dents, and I couldn't care less about the interior either. This makes it totally feasable as a daily driver - some parking lot damage and general wear and tear is inevitable and the front of any 911 collects paint chips like a rash.

Bras are for women and cross-dressers!

My somewhat unusual attitude also means I can do track days and other mad stuff like <gulp> using car washes without the usual 911 owners' terror of <horror> scratching the oh so precious paintwork... Also anyone who expresses interest can drive my car - I don't really care if they damage it since everything can be replaced or repaired.

A final plus point - many problems associated with older cars can often be traced to lack of regular use, in a strange way adding lots of miles actually contributes to reliability.

Summary

A daily driver is not going to remain immaculate unless you are prepared to do lots and lots of work on it all the time. Do your homework, look and drive lots before you buy, and don't ever fall in love with an inanimate object that can't love you back!

If you have the right attitude, any 911 can be a very rewarding daily driver. With a different attitude, you're looking at a daily driver with the 911 as a week-end/special occasion car.

You decide.

- roGER

mines an '86 that i have had as (our!) only driver.

superb!! i love it. which means:

1. i enjoy working on it!
2. i enjoy spending money on it - on stuff that it really doesn't NEED!

imho, it'll be fine as long as:

you get a good one to start with.
you're not going around the globe in it - mine is our only car but we put only about 6k miles a year on it.

i think buying the latest model you can (for reliabilty) , either an sc or carrera.

enjoy;)

Buy the latest you can afford and make sure it has been cared for. Condition and provenance is all. You will be rewarded with reliable motoring if you continue the high standard of care and preventative maintenance that these automotive jewels deserve.

I use my Carrera every day to commute; a 70 mile cross-country round trip. I love it! But unlike roGERK, I prefer to keep mine in good condition. Not concourse, not washed every Sunday; but good. Pre-89 911's are mechanically relatively simple cars and were manufactured to incredibly high standard. Buy with great care, and have fun!

i got out of my 70 bug that i built from the ground up & had as a daily driver for 12 years for an 85 cabrilolet that needs some work, no regrets & on the road everyday. do it! oh by the way it ran 14.20 in the 1/4 & top speed 125

Here's my .02 --

I bought my '83 SC Targa as a daily driver (a bit of a misnomer because I travel so much; it's probably driven 14 days a month). It cost me $13K in 2000 and needed a $2K investment pretty quickly to get into daily driver shape (fuel system, battery/alternator, refurbished Targa top, ad nauseum).

I've since put in another $8K to get the interior perfect and finish the mechanical stuff so everything works (headlight washers, updated A/C, etc.) All work was done by a qualified Porsche mechanic and a local specialty shop (Autos International).

The reality is that this car has 158K miles on it, and will probably cost me $1.5K a year to run. Additional reality is there is nothing on the road with the feel, sound, and class of an SC.

It's worth it, big time.

Cheers!

C.

ujeni77

Not sure where you live and what the climate is like, but do not forget to check for corrosion as with any other older car.

There are many examples of bright shiny cars hiding $5000 rust and paint repair bills. Seem to be quite a few here in UK, what did we do to deserve it? :(

Do a search for Rob Justice, or rust, you'll quickly get the picture.

Get one anyway, just try and drive it more than spanner it. ;)

I use an 88 daily, covering about 20k miles per year, I would say go for it. Just expect more maintenance issues than with a new car. Buy the best you can find and budget for parts and labour.

I also run a tuned, garage queen that covers abour 5k miles a year, problems are different but about equal. I think you get as many problems from not using it regularly as using it - Do you use it and wear it out or do you leave it idle and let it rot and seize up? I know which is more fun!

Like the ad says, just do it. Buy a 911 and don't look back. You can always pick up a cheap beater if you decide you need it for the daily commute. About 6 months after I bought the SC I decided I didn't want to put it through a Michigan winter. I simply stood up in my office at work - at the time one of many in a cube farm - and shouted "Who's got a car they want to sell for $500?" A guy 3 cubes over said he had a VW Rabbit he'd sell for $500, which had just had a tune-up and ran like a charm. That car lasted 2 winters and needed nothing : )

I figure about $500-1,000 a year for odds and ends for the 911. Most of that goes toward the "little things" that you'll always seem to want - better tires, better headlights; etc. My wife and I have had 4 new cars in the last 8.5 years - besides the VW Jetta my wife had (which was as solid as a tank), the 911 is easily as reliable as the rest, and a ton more fun. Stick with a coupe, though - my SC has needed a new targa top for all of the nearly 7 years I've owned it, and will probably need a new top for at least the next 16 years until our youngest son leaves for college :rolleyes: