Switch to Kendall oil appears to have solved my long-term chain rattle issue!
 

In connection with a recent breakdown in Asheville I met Scott Spence, long term Porsche mechanic and engine rebuilder in CA with Bruce Anderson who now owns German Motor Werks in Asheville. We spoke about my long term chain rattle that I've had with my orig engine and replacement engine (installed 2 years ago) Rattle occurs consistently at high engine temps and low gear low RPM conditions.

He said perhaps it is the oil I'm using and suggested Kendall. When working on race teams in the old days he stated that they would ship Kendall overseas for races. He changed the oil and adjusted the valves two weeks ago and so far no chain rattle! I think the Valvoline VR1 Racing oil I've been using gets too thin at high temps and the hydraulic tensionsers don't work properly. I've had this chronic problem for several years with two different engines so this change to Kendall and the elimination of chain rattle is huge for me. Just wanted to share. I'm surprised that a simple change in oil could have such a profound impact on tensioner performance. (now using Kendall 20W 50 dino vs Valvoline VR1 20W 50 dino racing oil)

been using GT1 for years. good stuff...

The real Kendall (original),is now Brad Penn.

The stuff he shipped overseas in 'the old days' is now B Penn as they bought the Kendall platform,,,,Kendall is now reg oil not prop up to snuff for flat tap motors.

Kendall GT-1 20W50 sold today is advertised as being appropriate for high performance flat-tappet camshaft engines. It states that it has high ZDDP (I don't have the numbers in front of me).

Anyway, all of this can be found on the gargantuan oil thread here on PP.

Maybe the Kendall GT1 is the same as Brad Penn, but with a different sticker on the bottle? You know seeing that BP purchased the stuff - recipe, facility or whatever...

ah. the misinformation that flows on the internet.

Kendall today is not the same as Brad Penn.

Its owned by Connoco Phillips... and has enough of the ZDDP (around 1200 ppm) for our engines.

I have cases of brad penn in my garage as well.. got a great deal on Amazon.. but the "new" GT1 is a very good oil... has been tested over and over again... which is why its listed as acceptable on the monster oil thread.

It really hasnt changed in awhile...

Wrong

Well I'll be flumoxed and hornswoggled....1200 ppm ZDDP!

The Kendall name was purchased by Conoco some years back and they now produce Kendall products in their refineries. In the purchase, they did not buy the Bradley, Pennsylvania refining facility, and that facility is the one that produces the Brad Penn products. That refinery produces their products using the original Kendall formulas, ergo the Brad Penn oil is the old original Kendall product (that everyone has raved about) except with the Brad Penn name. I use nothing but Brad Penn in my car, and it is readily available in the Atlanta area, at great prices! Check this thread for details.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/494379-attn-atlanta-area-pelicans-found-local-source-brad-penn-oil.html

Phosphorus, wt % 0.108
Titanium, wt % 0.010
Zinc, wt % 0.119

Above is the newest formulation... 20w50. I suppose that .119 is not the same as .12. (insert sarcasm...)

You are fine with easy to get GT1 or VR1. Best place to get brad penn on most days is Amazon if you have prime, because with prime.. shipping is FREE.

Finally, an accurate statement,....:) :)

What made the original Kendall GT-1 such a "magic" product was the unique base stocks pumped close to their refinery in NW Pennsylvania. Brad-Penn uses the same thing and its superior as a lubricant, compared to other like products. People who are far smarter than me attest to the qualities of Pennsylvania crude as used for oils.

As a consumer of the original Kendall products since 1965, I can personally attest to what they did that others didn't. Unfortunately, I have no idea what Conoco-Phillips uses in their current version of GT-1 race oil and they are not likely to tell me.

Given how expensive our engines are, I'll not use any other non-synthetic oil in a customer's or my own car unless I have no other choice.

Naturally JMHO,

Depending on what valve springs are in use, you may not be fine with those percentages, based on what I've seen. Those are marginal for OEM springs, however aftermarket ones are stiffer and place more demands on the oil's EP package.

OK, Steve, since you mentioned it (and hopefully not to continue another oil debate thread unnecessarily) what would your choice in synthetic oil be? :)

While there are plenty of choices, we use either Motul 300V 15w-50 or Mobil 1 V-twin 20w-50 oil. Both are exceptional products for the air-cooled engines with excellent base stocks and additive packages.

Congrats Mark on the fix! I wish the best for you and your baby.

Not for noting, but I had the opposite issue, when I switched to BP I started to get chain tensioner noise, :eek: scary shiznet, switched to VR1 and never heard it again. Crazy I know, I really liked how BP kept my baby cool but the leaks were just unbearable.

If the noise rears it's ugly head with VR1, then I may have to consider Kendall GT1.

Question for the guru's, I did not know the original Kendall formula had 20% synthetic like today's Brad Penn?

The original Kendall GT-1 was purely a dino oil. I think Brad-Penn added the 20% synthetic content to improve cold flow.

I used the org Kendall oil but this was a long time ago, wasn't it some funky color like green?

Blue

Yessir, thats correct. :)

Brad-Penn still is.

A very dark green with an almost blue tinge to it. Best Dino oil ever made. It looked already used when you put it into an engine!

Fascinating as all of this is (really), it belongs here:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/367300-ultimate-motor-oil-thread-why-we-hate-cj4-sm-oils.html

Anyway, if BP is the ultimate oil for old Porsches, or not, there are still a number of other oils that are perfectly suitable - see the above thread.

Who died and made you the Pelican police? actually since he is solving a particular issue... it probably belongs where it is.. but nonetheless.. it doesnt really matter. maybe you need to get a life?

Ha Ha Ha. Who's talking about the OP's question at this point? Nobody. You included.

I'm thinking about changing to the MOTUL that Steve speaks of, this upcoming summer (never used it before). I've been running BP for about 4 years now....great stuff........

It's so weird , to me, that chain tensioner issues (sounds) would be addressed through oil selections.....

I'd take a look at the tensioners (assuming that is the correct "audio" reference) and see what's (really) going on,....

Here's to Zinc & Phosphorous!!!!!!!

BEST!

Doyle

I looked at the prices of that Motul oil locally. Holy crap! It's not that plentiful, and it's over double the prices I've been spending on BP. I like the benefits of synthetic, but, wow...

I'm well aware of this 51 page thread and purposely did not post there. The purpose of my post was solely to make others aware of the tensioner/chain rattle issue apparently resolved by the switch from Valvoline to Kendall. Should they have similar chain tensioner issues they might want to give it a try.

I don't know why you thought my post was directed toward you. What you say in the quote above was clear in your original post.

Anyway, I use Kendall, too.

OK, guys... help ME here. I live in Iowa and this time of year I can't even get my '85 3.2 to warm up. I've been using Pennzoil 5W 30 since it's cold here. I'm not sure 20W 50 would be a good idea. I've seriously considered masking off part of the fan opening! Does VR1 come in a lighter weight for cold weather cars?

Yes.

UPDATE

Updating/bumping a two year old thread because it's the closest one to my recent experience.

Compared to last year's oil (Valvoline VR-1) which just went though months of winter storage, Kendall GT-1 makes my engine seem quieter.

A difference such as I heard could be attributed to changing 1-year old oil with 2,500 miles on it, to fresh oil. However as I've owned my car for 10-years and know it pretty well I think that is half the story at best.

What I'm hearing at full tilt is less of a raging roar often reminiscent of a super bike, and more of a deeper throatier car like (larger engine) sound.

At idle the engine also seems a bit more quite, with less tapping and ticking noises, again the higher frequencies seem attenuated or mulled.

In general, my engine sounds a little less aggressive or angry.

I should note that it's been a cool spring here and I could barely get the engine temperatures above 170 degrees over the weekend.

It will be interesting to see this summer if when it gets really hot out, engines temperature peaking at 185 after some brisk driving and the targa top off just how angry or noisy the engine sounds.

Right now my preliminary impression is favorable.

Another factor I should mention is that I'm just getting better at draining more old oil out during an oil change, I ended up putting the entire case (12 quarts) in the engine.

I ended up trying Kendall GT1 after using Valvoline VR-1 for the past five years because the price at the chain store was over $6.00 a quart for VR1, and the check-out line was very long and not moving.

I went away frustrated to a small auto store/distributor where I had once bought a small torque wrench for valve cover nuts and picked up the Kendall GT-1 saving about $2.00 a quart or over $20 bucks.

My main concern is wear. how did the plug look? any shavings?

I'll settle this! Get ya some of that!

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/29/ume5u5e6.jpg

Liquid Titanium!

I can't find Kendall around here for $#!t.

Part of me wants to suggest that there is an Ashland Oil (Valvoline) conspiracy involved.;)

is this what you are talking about:

Kendall® GT-1® High Performance Racing Formula with Added Zinc 20W-50 (1057267)

Kendall® GT-1® High Performance Nitro 70


High-quality conventional oil featuring exclusive Liquid Titanium® protection additive, plus the the zinc additive, ZDDP, for additional wear protection and enhanced oxidation resistance. Recommended for turbocharged and high-performance engines with flat-tappet camshafts.

Free shipping and handling!!!
Select below for 1/2 Case (6 Qts) or Case (12 Qts)

All we want here!

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/29/4u9u8yva.jpg

I took a friend out in the P-car Sunday, he wouldn't shut up about how different the car sounded, said it was a huge improvement.

The 2.7L seemed a little less zippy or peppy in the way it flickered the tach, but near redline it seems a lot less stressed sounding.

There seemed to be a slight resistance at acceleration, like the oil was thicker than normal or has an increased viscosity. Just about the complete opposite of how pure synthetic feels, and with oils like standard Valvoline and Castrol being in the middle of this perception.

I think the car is very happy with this oil, but again cool weather prevents me from commenting on hot weather and hot temperature performance.

It is almost as if someone put a bunch of Lucas oil treatment or STP in the oil, not that I've ever done that to the P-car but just imagining it so.

It is just smoother feeling and sounding, less erratic tach wise and less hectic or frantic sounding.