RE: wedge pin bolt/ball joint

[dshepp806]

a cross post from RL to the PP's:

Finally finished up my car's caliper rebuilds (no splitting), ending with the rears.....the fronts were rebuilt about 2 weeks ago,..and we loaded new ball joint hardware while down there in the front.

We ran across the wedge pin seating issue (not really sure it's any issue, just yet)....many threads on this (flush or NOT flush,..various versions of the wedge pins available,...bad batch - possibly, etc...)

In any case,.....in the such threads, I'm not quite sure I see where there are any issues with the [new] wedge pin bolt NOT being flush (simply due to it's design). I've gone through $100 worth of these and PP provides me with the ones that WILL NOT mount flush (Period).

Since the wedged portion is in it's proper position,..and there's plenty of thread on the bolt to get the nut and it's washer on,..all properly torqued,..what could possibly be the concern, in terms of functionality?

Anybody have some observations on this? I've seem several members get this part from other sources (obviously getting one that mounts FLUSH,..eventually) but don't really see where the big concern is...it wouldn't seem to be a matter of "neccessity".....being that this is a CRITICAL part on our cars, I'd like to put this to bed,...for a piece of mind....I do know that Wayne (PP) did contact his supplier and rx'd (and posted) info on this....all it seemed to accomplish was that YES, it's a bit different and will have no mal-impact in being a bit proud of flush.

She's stopping on a dime, these days (maybe even a piaster)...as the rear (and front) pads are now bedded. Good feeling knowing those calipers are very fresh now,..all pistons looked beautiful,...a nasty job, nonetheless.

In closing, after we finished the fronts, a couple of weekends ago,....it seemed to take about 11 days for things to settle in and provide good pedal,..I was concerned that the MC took a hit but she came around eventually (as many RL's stated she would)....guess that damned rubber needed some quality time with the caliper to find it's place.....dunno...

All I do know is that she's braking perfectly.

Just thought I'd ask for a specific explanation as to why these newer wedge bolts would compromise "anything" once installed.

Thanks,..and BEST to all!

Doyle

[tazzieman]

I too would like to hear more about this. I had reason to remove a new pin (chasing down a clunk that ended up being a damaged strut nsert); the pin was boogered like it was seated wrong at installation. Even though I took all precautions on this critical part. After the post above , I am beginning to wonder about the pin itself.

Also , the tech section Pelican Technical Article: Replacing the Ball Joints - 911 (1965-89) - 930 Turbo (1975-89)needs correcting.
It says

Replace the nut and washer on the opposite site of the pin, and tighten the nut until the back of the pin is almost flush with the strut. The large castellated nut on the bottom of the ball joint should be replaced if it was damaged. Reinstall this nut and torque to 45 Nm (33.1 ft-lbs). Make sure that you replace the locking washer and retaining pin at the bottom of the ball joint.

The torque figure should be 184ft/lbs on the large castellated nut , as discussed here Torque Spec for large Nut that secures Ball Joint- Book says one thing- website says- The wedge pin torque is only 16ft/lbs. Belt & braces , I blue Locktited mine on as well.

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by dshepp806

...Just thought I'd ask for a specific explanation as to why these newer wedge bolts would compromise "anything" once installed.

You may have seen me in some of those older threads when the wedge bolt shape changed initially. I haven't heard/read of any issues, and it's been several years now...I wouldn't worry about it.

[pete3799]

Just did my ball joints with parts sourced here.
Wedge pins fit flush on my Boge struts.
Don't think you'll have a problem if yours are driven in hard and the nuts are tight.

[wildcat077]

Doyle,

I cross answered your post on Rennlist ... lol

Cheers !
Phil

[dshepp806]

I don't think it to be an issue. Yes, i have seen the different threads on this,..and plan to soon mic my hardware to see exactly where those changes are,..(one can "see" them when side by side,..nonetheless).

Assuming the hardware strength is right (manufacturer),..as long as the wedge bolt is postioned (installed) properly (and, of course, THAT position is true [correct] from the manufacturer),..AND, one has the needed threads to install that nut/washer, I would think she's good-2-go.

I kinda' freaked when we did the fronts and found one side giving us this ~1/8" protrusion [other side went in fine,..WTF?) ...to the point of reintalling the original, on the driver side/front (for now),...ordering 2 more from PP for a later work session......during this first session, I mentioned to my son-in-law (call him T-Wrench, as he's a Toyota Master Tech---who does assist with much work on my car---I drive his arse NUTS!), the current wedge pin bolt findings,..and to NOT be tempted to beat the living sheeit out of one side (trying for flush),...NOR be tempted to attempt some kinda' "pull" via the nut....2 1/2 weeks go by ,..we're then up for the rear caliper rebuild past weekend,..car on jack stands,..decide to install the recently acquired NEW wedge pins,...he encounters the same findings as before (protusion of the wedge pin bolt's head,...i.e., NOT flush,..mentions nothing to me of this,..and proceeds to attempt tightening the nut a bit too much: SNAP! Off she goes,..and we're staring at the remnants of a sheered bolt,...I got it out (eventually),..being very careful with the bore...BUT: WHAT A PAIN.....Can't believe he did it,...rascal. Tazzieman would make a good recco' should anything be floating out there that speaks of >16.2 ft-lbs on that nut,..she'll snap quite easily...ask me how I know (well,..kinda' "know").....

Gonna' drive her for a week,..our next session is clutch master installation,..we decided to go ahead and get the Master cylinder on order and change it out "just because"at the same time........this will put the braking system at full rebuild status,..head to toe....will check some torque statuses when we get her back in the air...

I noted the mention of use of Locktight,..I didn't even think of this....is this a standard practice on this junction? Will have to read the factory manual piece on this.....

Thanks to all who posted.

back to point,...still looking for any explanations as to problems that may have happened (I've heard of none, either) or "could happen".......

Calling it "DONE"!!!!!

bottom line,..felt like I wanted to post to try to get this one put to bed,....

BEST!

Doyle

[tazzieman]

Originally Posted by dshepp806

and found one side giving us this ~1/8" protrusion

Mine protruded ~3mm also (as much as the factory original ones were) ; I wasn't sure whether to whack them flush - and hearing about the nut shear issue I proceeded cautiously.

I'm thinking if the hole isn't nice and clean and lubed the balljoint shaft may not rotate slightly to seat itself against the driven pin . The pin metal seems rather soft and sacrificial in the scheme of things.

Should the blunt end protrude at all?

[dshepp806]

Hole was more than "nicely" cleaned...again,..there was a manufacturer's spec difference...one will rest flush,..a newer one will not.....hit and miss....I guess? All previous posts have noted completely correct orientation of the wedge pin bolt upon installation, all "into" CLEAN bore..... One can visually see the difference in the wedge pin bolts pics in previous threads.....she just doesn't mount the same........

My question has more to do with whether this (difference in products) actually matters...in terms on strength and functionality.......of it's intended job.

The factory originals mounted FLUSH.

BEST!

Doyle

[dshepp806]

Reviewed the Factory Manual on this and no mention is made of "flush",..just "proper" positioning,..and proper torque on that nut.....all, I think, can be achieved with the "protruding" replacement wedge pin bolt.

Best,

Doyle