Need a safe dual purpose street/DE car set up

[Maxhouse97]

I had completed a couple of DEs in a relatively stock 87 3.2 when a family friend of my wife died on the track during a separate DE in his S2000. As far as I can tell he had something fail on the right rear of his car (rotor, wheel, etc.) on a straight which caused him to slam hard sideways against a wall. He did not have a Hans or halo seat and the presumption was that his neck fractured. Subsequently my wife became very wary of all track events in general and I am now fighting to convince her that I can continue my DE participation safely. The only way I have a chance is to max out on safety gear in my current car, or get a dedicated track car.

Even though a dedicated track car would be the safest, due to the 1 week old daughter that is peacefully sleeping in front of me, I think I will only be able to do 2-3 track events a year. Maybe more after she grows older, but not now. Therefore I do not want to dump a bunch of money into a track car that I would only drive 2-3 times a year. So I want to look into the first option - maxing out safety gear on my Carrera while still keeping it streetable.

So along the lines of Jack Olsen's car, I was thinking a full cage, Hans, 6-points, race seats, seat back brace, fire extinuisher, electrical cut-off, window and side net. I'm not sure if he has all that, but he does have the cage (Jack if you read this please feel free to elaborate!). So far I have a safety device rear half cage, Recaro Pole Positions, batt cut off and the 6-points (not pictured).

Without getting into the debate about a full cage on the street, does anyone have a good example of this set-up? Any pics of well integrated roll cage padding, fastened with something other than zip ties? I'd like to keep it looking as nice as possible for street use. Will a Hans and side nets make up for a lack of halo seats? What else can I do to raise the safety factor while keeping it steerable? Or is it a lost cause? If I absolutely had to buy a track car I could only afford a Spec Miata, which would take me away from the Porsche brand/friends and a lot of the reason for tracking in the first place. Thanks.

[euro911sc]

Originally Posted by Maxhouse97

So along the lines of Jack Olsen's car, I was thinking a full cage, Hans, 6-points, race seats, seat back brace, fire extinuisher, electrical cut-off, window and side net.

The above is, essentially, the description of a dedicated track car minus the trailer and tow rig. You can cover roll cage padding in leather to hide it. Not cheap, but looks great.

You could look at the R3 head gear. It does not require all the cage and belts to work. That way you can avoid a lot of the other stuff and still keep your neck safe.

This is a very tough thing to accomplish and you will be compromising somewhere...

[schumicat]

I would tell wife you (or any of us) are 100x more likely to be killed driving on public streets than at the occassional DE. If you really want all that stuff in a Porsche you can get an old 914, 924, 928 or 944 for $2-3k.

[CCM911]

Originally Posted by schumicat

I would tell wife you (or any of us) are 100x more likely to be killed driving on public streets than at the occassional DE. If you really want all that stuff in a Porsche you can get an old 914, 924, 928 or 944 for $2-3k.

Schumicat, I was thinking the exact same thing. We lost a guy on the track some time back, and it was due to his having a heart attack during his run session. Other than that, I have never heard of anyone actually dying at a DE event.

I knda look at track driving like I do skiing. Ski or drive within your abilities and the chance of problems is much decreased.

[GaryR]

This is a duplicate of a Rennlist post in the Racing and DE forum, nothing new to add.

[Charles Freeborn]

As much logic and technology one can throw at a situation like this, the over riding factors I see here are the very valid and likely quite emotional fears of the mother of a 1 week old.
You'll have to sort out how everyone can live their lives and trust each other to not expose themselves to unnecessary risks in doing so. This may also apply to the vehicle she drives to the store and back.
As for your track days, I'd sit in a Porsche at speed any day over an S2000 (especially one with mechanical failure issues), and as already said, the driver is the most important safety feature in the car.
-C

[thethrill]

Safety starts with a properly inspected and prepared car. I inspect my care before run sessions. Jack it up and give it a once over. We mark the suspension fasteners with a dab of paint so if a bolt backs out you can see it. I am a big fan of long wheel studs and STEEL lug nuts. I would also suggest a harness bar and 5 or 6 point harness.

We have a routine (much like a pre-flight inspection of a plane) whereby we check the car before each session.

Lastly, if possible avoid tracks where there are concrete walls or barriers. I was afraid of spinning where there is a concrete wall or barrier as hitting one will cause serious injury.

[GaryR]

He doesn't mention that he is a former F-18 pilot and his wife flies helos... and being on the track is a big risk?

[Maxhouse97]

Haha yes I was a pilot but no longer fly. Somehow a baby changes though...

Thanks for all the input. Do check out the same thread on RL for some statistics I found. Racing is much safer thank riding a motorcycle but not quite as safe as the street. Then again that analysis was done for W2W racing and I am talking DEs. But as I am sure you all know, women aren't always 100 rational when it comes to these things.

Bottom line I decided not to go with the cage, but may get a halo seat for temporary use along with everything else that I already have. I also may go to a professional school to give her confidence that I know what I am doing. Jets are similar but a little different

[schumicat]

racing and DEs are apples and oranges. I wouldn't put a cage in a car where people were going to be riding without helmets and full harnesses, but it's your car and you can do anything you want to it.

[RWebb]

either a cage or a rollbar can crush an unprotected skull in a crash

ruf makes a nice leather padded rollbar but I dunno if it is safe for no helmet use - it is likely TUV approved so would be quite safe if it is

but a rollbar may not do the job in a side impact leaving the occupants vulnerable - take a look at this:

[spuggy]

Originally Posted by RWebb

ruf makes a nice leather padded rollbar but I dunno if it is safe for no helmet use - it is likely TUV approved so would be quite safe if it is

Believe Ruf used the Matter rollbar, based on an old ad here from someone selling one (together with unobtainium NIB CTR flares/rockers).

Rothsport make a repro of the Matter setup, IIRC.

[Charles Freeborn]

One more thing - pardon my poor manners in prior comments -
CONGRATULATIONS! on your bambina!
-C

[Maxhouse97]

Thanks! Gonna get her a Recaro baby seat in a couple of months

[Mahler9th]

I had a 951 with a roll bar and then a cage for about 6-7 years. Commuter car. I used the softer type of roll bar foam and the street belts when I drove on the street. For a couple of years, I used a special foam called Confor foam underneath the roll bar foam.

Safety Devices used to sell a special roll bar foam product that was Confor foam wrapped in fabric. I am not sure whether they sell this anymore, but Confor is mentioned on their web site: http://www.safetydevices.com/motorsport/products/impact-padding.

I buy Confor foam from McMaster Carr. They sell all four colors. I buy the blue stuff.

My current 911 race car is also driven on the street, but not for commuting. It is all polycarbonate, frp and carbon fiber with a full cage. No horn, turn sigals. Too low, too loud. And it runs race gas.

I think it is trivial to change seats back and forth. Cages and roll bars are a different matter, but it is hard to compete with strong motivation. I used to take my 951 cage out in the winter.

People have been doing DE's in these cars for decades, and the street/DE configuration question has myriad solutions. Leverage those that have gone before.

Cardioivascular health is important too! In the 25 years I have been doing DEs and racing. the friends and acquaintances I have lost have been mostly due to cardiovascular issues.

[Mahler9th]

If you decide to use a racing harness system and a HANS, make sure the mounting set up is within the specs they provide.