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I need info on a rust killing chemical....

About 40 years ago I was having a rust problem, and while at a PCA meeting I was able to speak to a guy who ran the Porsche dealership in San Antonio. He was also very heavy into restoration of Porsche autos and knew just about every trick in the book.

I asked him about a shortcut to killing rust which involved a chemical that turned iron oxide, also known as rust, into iron phosphate, also known as a gray mass that is not rust. He said he had used it and that it worked well, but that it left an 'industrial' finish so it was only good for places no one could see. He was not a fan of it, but he said it did have its' uses.

So I got some, and it worked, and it was ugly. But I no longer worried about rust in the treated area.

Anyway.... I cannot remember the name of this product. It was not POR-15; it was sold in auto parts stores or paint supply houses and it came in a small can.

You would think that after only 40 years I would remember the name, but I guess I am just getting old.

Anyone out there have a brand name or a source for this stuff.

Old 04-19-2012, 07:32 PM
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Rust killer products include: Rust Mort, Naval Jelly, Loctite Extend, Duplicolor Rust Fix.

Rust Mort and Naval Jelly use phosphoric acid to convert the rust to a stable substance.

Extend and Duplicor use some other process to do the same.

You can also use Molasses but I will leave that research to you.
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Old 04-19-2012, 07:53 PM
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Sounds kind of like Ospho. I am using it to convert rust but than scrap away the black/gray matter and than repeat until I get to clean shiny metal.
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Old 04-19-2012, 07:57 PM
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[QUOTE=Idcelr8;6699284]About 40 years ago I was having a rust problem, and while at a PCA meeting I was able to speak to a guy who ran the Porsche dealership in San Antonio. He was also very heavy into restoration of Porsche autos and knew just about every trick in the book.


The guy you met was a well known, almost legendary guy to a lot of long time PCAers. His name is Bill Jones. He had a VW dealership the southside of San Antonio that I think also sold Porsches at one time. His son Bob still runs Jones Auto Werks in San Antonio. Great shop by the way! Bill's restorations were virtually flawless and second to none. He knew more about Pcars and their history than anyone I've ever met!
The product he probably mentioned was some form of phosphoric acid. There are many products available at your local FLAPS that use it as the active ingredient. Naval Jelly is one that comes to mind, but there are many others
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Old 04-19-2012, 07:59 PM
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I have some rust converter in the basement, bought it about 30 years ago when I was restoring one of the original Ford Broncos. It is called Zintex, it's a non-latex rust converter, made by T.N. Cowan International, 1002 Sparks St, Alvarado, Tx. 76009

the lable says it contains tannic acid, isoproyl alcohol and Phosphoric acid.

It worked fine to stop corrosion in hard to reach locations, although it's probably not suitable for large surface applications.
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Old 04-19-2012, 07:59 PM
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The formula you refer to goes under the trade name "Rust Converters". There are many brands. Do a search for Rust Converters and you'll see that most of them contain tannic acid and/or phosphoric acid that turn the rust into iron phosphate.
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Old 04-19-2012, 08:03 PM
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Available at your local Napa store. You apply it directly over rust, first turns creamy white, then black. We typically apply a second coat. Other similar products are available from numerous vendors.
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Old 04-19-2012, 08:58 PM
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I bet you're thinking of Rust Mort or something the same (Phosphoric Acid) but different label. There are lots of rust treatments on the market now that work much better - in my opinion. Lately I've become a fan of Evapo-Rust for certain applications. Do some research and you'll no doubt find some good products.
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Old 04-19-2012, 09:00 PM
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I used Plasti Kote rust converter on the inside of a rusty motorcycle tank after doing my best to get all of the loose rust out. It turns the rust into a harder black substance. I tried it on other things but had the best luck inside the tank where I could seal it up & let it sit for a while without drying out. It turned my fingers purple for a few days so I'd advise gloves.
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Old 04-19-2012, 09:22 PM
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Your local Home Depot and Lowes also carry "Kleen Strip / Phosphoric Clean and Strip". It's a free flowing liquid unlike the Navel Jelly type products. You can spray it on but it will run off a vertical surface or you can just keep misting the part to keep it moist for 20 mins or so. Best to use on flat surfaces or in a container where you can soak the part. Need to prime soon after so the part doesn't flash rust again. I've been using it on all metal parts before priming.
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Old 04-19-2012, 09:27 PM
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Sounds kind of like Ospho.

Last edited by adamb100; 04-19-2012 at 11:49 PM..
Old 04-19-2012, 11:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kkinzli View Post
Sounds kind of like Ospho. I am using it to convert rust but than scrap away the black/gray matter and than repeat until I get to clean shiny metal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by adamb100 View Post
Sounds kind of like Ospho.
I agree as well. I have used it on the engine tin and other stuff. Here is an excerpt from Ospho.

Quote:
When applied to rusted surfaces, OSPHO causes iron oxide (rust) to chemically change to iron phosphate - an inert, hard substance that turns the metal black.
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Old 04-19-2012, 11:58 PM
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From another website:

"Evapo-Rust (product review)

All the talk of cams/rust/iron/etc reminded me I forgot to post about this stuff. DR apparently asked about it ages ago but no one answered.
I also did not know anyone who had personally used it but I had a project and for ~$25/gal I figured was worth a shot. (Avail from harbor freight but can ordered a little cheaper.)...

Long Answer: IT WORKS F*&%ING GREAT! It works though chelation so it only attacks iron oxide. Not steel, iron, aluminum, paint, brass, solder, carbide, etc. Only iron oxide. Its not acidic so you can just leave stuff in it. It wont eat away sharp edges or details.
Two downsides:
1) it might leave some steels darker gray or even black (depending on the steel.) Seems to be worse w/ more used solution. I have some drills & reamers that are pretty black now (but still sharp!)
2) It removes iron oxide (duh!). Some bluing on tools/drills (like black allen wrenches or bolts) and almost all bluing on guns are really a form of iron oxide. It will strip it as easily as it strips the 'orange' variety. Tools can easily be reblued w/ something like Brownells cold blue but thats another subject. Just be aware.

The test subject:
I bought a pretty much destroyed rotary table at the cabin fever auction early this year for $17 (being 220# and no one wanted to carry it helped too.) Only the top was rusted so I was really gambling the insides were nice and I could repurpose it for another project and just regrind the top. It was a unique tilting design too. I took it apart and found a bucket big enough to soak the whole cast iron top in (you need to fully submerge the part or you'll get a little line at the transition.) The pics speak for themselves. I wire brushed the loose stuff off before soaking. The metal actually turned a duller gray when done but a light hand wire brush restored the shiny finish. It only takes a couple hours. You can see in the closeup pic where the rust went a little deeper there are little pits but by far the majority of the surface is perfect. FWIW, Turns out the table is a very high precision $8000 tilting table Yuasa (Japan) built with amazing craftsmanship. EVERY mating surface is scraped in, bearings preloaded, etc.

Im now a walking advertisement for their product (no affiliation) and have tried to tell everyone I know. Friends have come back w/ similar results.

A couple other notes: It has a light sulfur smell but not bad. Easily used indoors in a basement. Needs to be warm to work (so out in a cold garage is no good. Summertime garage is great.) 1gal goes a LONG way. I bought 2 gal just so I could dunk larger pcs."

Don't seem to be able post pics here anymore (?). Sent an e-mail about it but still no joy.
Old 04-20-2012, 04:22 AM
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Old 04-20-2012, 05:19 AM
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The guy I was talking to had to have been Mr. Jones. He was without a doubt one of the finest persons I have ever met, and there was no detail about restoring Porsches he didn't seem to know. I do remember he drove to the meeting, which was in Arlington, Tx, in a 912 that looked showroom new and someone asked him why he did not drive his 914-6. The year must have been 1974.

The trip from SA to Arlington then took about six or seven hours so a few people asked why he did not fly. He asked who would want to fly when they could drive their Porsche?

Navel Jelly was the product I was thinking about. I was unaware of all the other brands but I very glad everyone chimed in with them. I can't be the only person who has wondered about this question; hopefully others will get some use out of this thread as well.

Thanks to all who responded. You can never have too much information.

Old 04-20-2012, 10:15 AM
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