No life in 3,2 Carrera

[DP911-70-2,7]

Hello....from Norway

I need some help regarding my 1984 3,2 Carrera . Last night i went out in the garage for a late run whit 911, but no life in the old lady. The DME is ok, and the fuel pump is ok.....the coil has power, but no spark on the plugs. Any idea about where the problem can be ?

Regards
B.A.A

[ivangene]

man is that a beautiful car!

so you removed a plug, grounded it and checked spark...nothing?
could be a flywheel sensor, a coil (those go bad), or IDK..the next thing down the list

I think I would check coil if it really is getting no spark but getting fuel

[ivangene]

on second thought...how charged up is the system. it needs full battery to run...you might check that too - and the fuses while up there

but the description points to the coil first I think, then the crank sensor - but what do I know...

[ischmitz]

Not clear how you conclude the DME and fuel pump are OK?

Let's be systematic: Check the DME is powered with the key in ON position (ICV vibrating)
Check sure the fuel pump runs when cranking (DVM on fuse)
Check for spark (old plug against metal while cranking)
Check for fuel (LED test light, smell test at tail pipe)

If no power the DME relay or ignition switch or alarm module (if present) are suspect.
If no fuel, no spark then on to the speed and reference sensors, ohm them out.

Ingo

[DP911-70-2,7]

Originally Posted by ivangene

man is that a beautiful car!

so you removed a plug, grounded it and checked spark...nothing?
could be a flywheel sensor, a coil (those go bad), or IDK..the next thing down the list

I think I would check coil if it really is getting no spark but getting fuel

THX.... Its a non sunroof car whit all the right options, only 124000 km. Imported from Germany in 2006.

I can measure ca 12 volt in top of the coil when ignition on. (coil line) and i have opened the DME to check if the two points step in, and they do. It smells gas from the exhaust....
I have hold the spark plug to ground....no spark.

[DP911-70-2,7]

I will ohm speed and reference sensors tomorrow, but how many ohms would i get from this ?
Were are the sensors placed ?

[Socbum]

Here is a check list that I followed when I had the same symptoms. There are a lot of threads on the forum that will provide several paths to diagnos a no spark/no fuel issue. This list seemed to be very comprehensive and systematic.

BTW -- If you end up having a bad ignition coil (my problem) do yourself a favor and get a quality replacement or you will end up having the issue again (sooner than you would like).

Good luck

911 Carrera Engine
Starting Troubleshooting

No-start Diagnosis (84-89 Carrera)

Pre-req’s: Charge battery, tighten fan belt, remove driver’s seat.

1. Remove a spark plug wire and insert a test plug into the wire, place it next to the engine, have someone crank the engine and look for a spark (or remove one of the plugs and do the same).

2. Remove the air cleaner cover and air filter, and spray some fuel into the intake. You will have to hold open the little "door" inside there with something. If it starts briefly then dies you probably have a fuel problem.

3. You can jumper a hot wire to the fuel pump and listen to it whir to prove that it’s working. Run a short wire from the fuel pump fuse (#6) to an adjacent fuse (#5 or 7) at the bottom of the fuse terminal, the pump should whir.

4. If the fuel pump whirs (when jumpered), try starting the car this way (this overrides the DME control of the fuel pump). If it runs, it probably indicates some kind of DME problem (the DME is not sending power to the fuel pump). If still doesn’t run, it’s probably not a DME problem.

4.5. With key in 'RUN' engine off the IdleControlValve should vibrate, you can feel it with your hand. If it vibrates, then the DME relay is working.

5. Jumper the CHT sensor by using a paper clip. This is the Top Plug on the upper left side of the engine. It has a white wire. The cylinder head temp sensor could cause flooding if it has broken and reads infinite resistance, when this happens the fuel mixture goes extremely rich. So test the resistance of the CHT sensor at room temp 68F it should read about 2500 ohms +/- 20% ballpark here.

5.5 At the Air Flow Meter test for 5 volts on the Blue/Green Stripe wire by pulling back the rubber boot at the harness. You must have 5v here with key in RUN car not running

6. If the relay doesn’t fix it, it could be the DME computer itself, faulty sensors (flywheel speed and position), or faulty grounds. Try disconnecting the DME computer and cleaning the contacts. Check resistance on the Speed and position sensors (black plugs on upper left side of engine). They should be between 800-1200 ohms.

7. Check all ground connections (brown wires) for corrosion. Disconnect them, clean them, and replace. Check especially the ground points in the engine compartment. There’s one on the manifold pipes, and another on the left side of the engine compartment behind the fuel filter. There is another one on the bottom of the car around the transmission.

7.5 Put the light across the '-' and '+' posts at the coil primary (not the hi-voltage wire!) leave coil connected and crank/start the car, the LED test light will flicker if you have coil pulses.

7.6 Unplug the cyl #1 injector harness and put the LED test light across the 2 pins in the injector harness, then crank the engine and the light will flicker.

If test 7.5 and 7.6 do not cause the light to flicker then you most likely have a bad speed or ref sensor, but if you have flicker then this means you have coil and injector pulses (which I bet you do because you smell fuel) bottom line is that a bad speed and/or ref sensor will result in NO coil or injector pulses. Now, keep in mind that even if you have primary coil pulses you may not have hi-voltage at the coil. The coil could be bad or the cap and rotor are bad or wet inside.

8. Check all fuses for corrosion. Remove each fuse and replace. All DME-related fuses are up front, but there are three fuses under the plastic cover at the left rear side of the engine compartment. The fuses in engine compartment are not for starting or running the engine -- they are for the heater blower, blower relay and defogger/ rear window wiper

9. If the DME is okay, Check resistance of each injector (2-3 ohms) Put a NOID light on each injector and test pulsing. Unplug the DME harness, unplug all injectors, and you should see 12V on each injector.

[luyckxglen]

sorry for the off topic , but what rim size do you have under there? 17 inch replicas? verry nice height of the car did you lower it with the original shocks?
greetz

[ischmitz]

Originally Posted by DP911-70-2,7

THX.... Its a non sunroof car whit all the right options, only 124000 km. Imported from Germany in 2006.

I can measure ca 12 volt in top of the coil when ignition on. (coil line) and i have opened the DME to check if the two points step in, and they do. It smells gas from the exhaust....
I have hold the spark plug to ground....no spark.

If you have fuel but no spark the sensors are O.K. and it is either the coil itself or the DME. Can you confirm you measure constant +12V at both coil terminals?

Ohm the two coil terminals. Should be something close to 1 Ohm.

Ingo

[DP911-70-2,7]

Thx Socbum. I will go tru that list tomorrow and see......

The coil has 12.3 V at bouth terminals... and i opend the DME, bouth the "relees" inside acts on turning egnition key.

[DP911-70-2,7]

Originally Posted by luyckxglen

sorry for the off topic , but what rim size do you have under there? 17 inch replicas? very nice height of the car did you lower it with the original shocks?
greetz

They are org Porsche 17 Rims. This car was delivered new whit this hight, and a sports running gear package. I have asked in another tread (No answers in that tread)about this car because it came from Germany whit a print from carid.audatex.net. A carid system they have there i think, and it says "Club-Sport-Version". But that lovely car did not came before -88. I have found somee information on a web page that they did make some Pre CS cars back in -84/85 ...but just a few were made. Its some info that i think you have to know someeone in Stuttgart to know more about. I don't bother looking no more...

[Drisump]

I'm sure you've checked the lead from the coil to the distributor and the state of the cap and rotor but those should be checked. (BTW Ingo is one of the boards DME gurus). Good luck.

[DP911-70-2,7]

I get no reading on one of the two sensors....so, this is the sinner....

[Socbum]

Glad you found the problem. Make sure you do a search on replacing the sensor on here. Lots of great write ups on how to remove and some of the pitfalls. Not something that I have had to perform yet so I can't give you any tips.

Good luck!

[kidrock]

it is highly recommended that both sensors be replaced as a pair. They are both exactly the same.

Also, the sensors are a match for the late 80's / early 90's BMW sensor, which can be purchased for much less $$$.

[jess p]

First thing I do is charge up the battery real good. Then spray some starting fluid
In the intake. If the car starts, a lot of thinks are eliminated.

[DP911-70-2,7]

Originally Posted by kidrock

it is highly recommended that both sensors be replaced as a pair. They are both exactly the same.

Also, the sensors are a match for the late 80's / early 90's BMW sensor, which can be purchased for much less $$$.

This info is GREAT



...and saves me a lot of money. They are pretty exp here in Norway, about 350$ each..THX......

But which BMW.....????????... 5 series, 3 series....????


..

[JJ 911SC]

Originally Posted by DP911-70-2,7

This info is GREAT



...and saves me a lot of money. They are pretty exp here in Norway, about 350$ each..THX......

But which BMW.....????????... 5 series, 3 series....????


..

12-14-1-708-619-M14 : Pelican Parts - Product Information: 12-14-1-708-619-M14

I replace both with no problems. Check the REVIEWS tab at the link if you have any doubts.

[ALXinNZ]

I love this place!

[DP911-70-2,7]

Me to....thx again