MSD Install Notes for SC
 

Installed the MSD 6 and blaster coil I picked up at Hershey this past weekend. Just thought I'd provide some notes for those considering adding this onto their SC with the 6 pin CD box

I installed the box on the aluminum panel the original Bosch box was on. Installation was tight, it would have been much easier if I didn't still have the original alt. with the external voltage regulator taking up space on the panel. I will post some photos if anyone is interested. The coil mounted in the same bracket as the stock bosch coil.

I installed the MSD box by using spade connectors on the MSD leads and connecting to the original 6 pin connector so no splicing into the harness was necessary and it can be easily switched back at any time.

A short lead was made to run from the tach output on the MSD unit and plugs into the 6 pin connector at terminal TD, no adapter is necessary

The thin red wire is hooked to terminal 15 this is a switched 12V source.

The orange wire is connected to terminal A this is the positive coil lead (white wire for coil)

The black wire (thin) is connected to terminal 31-1 which is the -ve coil lead (brown/red wire for coil).

For the distributor trigger the green wire goes to terminal 7 and the violet wire goes to terminal 31d .This is important as if the car is hooked up the other way it will run but very badly, ask me how I know:)

For the 12V power I ran the heavy red wire from the MSD unit to the +ve terminal on the starter, the heavy black ground wire is connected to the ground lug behind the fuel filter and accumulator on the body.

The car was running very well prior to installation and I really didn't expect much of a difference with the installation. But, I must say I was impressed with the unit, I opened up the plug gaps to 0.045" as I believe is recommended by Steve W. The car idles and runs very well. I highly recommend this upgrade. I still need to order a new set of Magnecore plug wires from Pelican but even with the old stock wires right now the car is a blast.

Todd

Installation of the MSD is going to be my next project. As you have volunteered, could you please provide the appropriate pics.

Thanks for the notes, and a million thanks for the upcoming pics.



Windsor
"We PP Posters Rock!!!!!"

What is the benefit of putting MSD6 on a SC?
 

I have a 1982SC and was told that adding would not make any difference from a performance standpoint. I have a MSD6 I took off another car that I wanted to put on my 911.

You may want to check out Steve Weiner's pages at

http://www.rennsportsystems.com/~porsche/2.html

He has a bunch of good info on 911 modifications pertaining to ignition, induction etc.

To quote from one of his statements on the above pages

"plug gaps between 0.040" and 0.045" are known to make more power and better idle due to the larger flame kernel and the resulting more thorough combustion process."

Steve is also a contributor on this forum so maybe he will respond directly, but my observations seem to be consistent with the above statement.

Todd

Todd,


Man, now I am all confused! Just kidding. I hope he does respond. I want to make sure that it is worth my investment and most importantly he covers emission results. I have smog nazis to deal with here.

I am trying to install an MSD unit on my 83 SC now. Just a quick question. How did you run the 12v 12ga red wire to the starter? Did you have to drill a hole to run it and did you take care to avoid any of the hot components like the exhaust?

Thanks for your help.

"I highly recommend this upgrade."

Upgrade?????? Maybe waiting for the Chevy engine install!

So, where're the technical data to support this other than
unsubstantiated claims made to promote it? Basically a good
sales gimmick for the naive. Besides, less reliable than a Bosch.

Loren:

Perhaps instead of relentlessly bashing everything, why don't you try this for yourself?????

You have VERY little to lose and just MAYBE,..............MAYBE you might learn something new. That my friend, is why we all get up in the morning otherwise what would be the point?

You wouldn't accept anyone's dyno data as proof so I'd challenge you to prove/disprove this for yourself. :)

Plus, these are now more reliable than Bosch,....:) :)

10 times more reliable than Bosch cdi"s

nice SC data



i use www.waytekwire. com double wall shrink tube instead of corrugated plastic tubing to enclose some wires. Almost looks stock.

i'd also coat wire connectors with dielectric.

some pelicanheads say that MSD will create faiures in stock Beru wires and those rpm limiting dizzy rotors.

member Jesset's pic



http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1195954139.jpg

"Plus, these are now more reliable than Bosch"

Please!!!!! They're inherently less reliable given the greater number
of components. Also, theoretically the multiple sparks:

1. Have no real benefit since the charge has completely
burned prior to the next multiple spark (Do the calculations) and,
2. End above 3000 RPMs.

The only real difference between Bosch and MSD is the
greater stress on the overall ignition system elements
when using a MSD; i.e. wires, cap & rotor (usually burned).

The real proof of the gimmick nature of a MSD is that NO
OEM car has or used the multiple spark gimmick & all
use inductive discharge now.

Thats true since the MSD's have a lot more current & voltage. Its one of the sound arguments for replacing the always-troublesome Beru plug connector wires with Magnecors which have no resistors to burn out.

I always replace the rev-limiting rotors with the 930 ones and use the soft-touch rev limiters in the MSD 6AL units,...:)

Now,...one has a bulletproof ignition system. :) :)

Unless YOU have used them for 25+ years as some of us have on hundreds of cars, you really have little or no first-hand experience about their benefits. :) :) :)

"Unless YOU have used them for 25+ years"

Many blindly do things not really understanding what's the real effect
or the lack there of, e.g. fuel & oil additives.

Loren,.....are you telling me that I do not understand what I'm doing???

OK, I'am breaking out the crackers. This will become a fun thread. We should invite Steve over, too.

BTW: I read somewhere my ML430 (dual plug configuration) switches from sequential sparks to dual-spark at some RPM threshold. Apparently the sequential spark is used for cleaner burning at lower RPM. But then, what do I know......

You guys understand that now I *have* to get one and try it out! Maybe I can sell Loren my old CDI?

Steve Weiner do you have any experience with the Mallory CD units? It is my understanding that the MSD is a analog technology vs. the Mallory being digital? Just curious if the digital has " real world " benefits? Not trying to hijack the original post. Thanks

Good stuff Todd, looking forward to seeing your pictures. Mine going in to the C3 over the Christmas holidays, but I will do a permanent install and lose the CDI completely.

I do not,....:)

In thje past, Mallory ignitions have suffered an unacceptable MTBF rate and I will not use them at this time. Digital ignitions, be they Mallory, MSD, or others, merely offer more features.

IBTL ;)


I put an MSD on my car when the permatune unit failed. @ $300 it was a much better deal than the Bosch unit. I don't know any performance gains, I didn't drive it hard at the time. I have noticed no failures or problems in 3.5 years.

I would recommend that you run blades to the 6 pin connector so you don't have to cut anything.

Make sure you have a good boot on the coil and the lead to he distributor is tight. The spark is very powerful and can blow out coil if not seated. Ask me how I know.

In response to T_Durden... I had the same concerns, and a helpful professor set me right-

I ran the wire along the driver's side of the engine, then along the back of the engine to the passenger side. There's no need to drill a hole - the engine is not a tightly sealed compartment. You can move the rubber seal at by hand and slide the wire past the curled lip of the engine tin. If you have a rubber grommet or something it's not a bad idea to put it there too, lest rubbing damage the wire.

Good luck,

Babak

PS discussions like this thread will be great once we get a wiki setup

You wire the "hot" to one of the fuse posts under the plastic cover. Nothing goes to the starter.

Todd,

For what it's worth: Loren frequently finds other's electrical work unworthy. He's in the business, but has failed to understand rule 1 of basic marketing.

Rule 1: Being nice attracts people-- being a jerk, doesn't.

Rule 2: The mind is like a parachute; it works a LOT better if it is open.

I just installed one plus the blaster coil and opened my gaps to .058". I can say that I notice a very, very subtle difference in grunt but not real appreciable. No dyno. This doesn't concern me because I bought the msd and coil to replace the oem units.

Maybe I'll monkey around with the gaps some more but it's my assumption that the wider the gap the longer the flame, etc. There's no misfire but I can't really imagine widening the gaps further (can you?).

here's the thread I referenced wrt gap: http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/332506-msd-ignition.html?highlight=msd+tach

Regarding the recurring argument on msd's, I say get one for yourself and if you perceive it to work better for you, then fine.

Perception is truer than truth--only those with self image problems are intolerant of others' beliefs.

Been there, done that.........
 

In my '80 911SC coupe:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1196104117.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1196104136.jpg

My car is equipped with an internal voltage regulator so the old external unit was already out of the way. The MSD has been in my car almost 3 years now and has never missed a beat. I'll report back in 17 more years when it has 20 yrs on the clock. I am confidant that it will still be in the car an working if/when I decide to sell it. Bosch is good, but not the only choice, especially at the price! Besides, if my unit "breaks" I can buy a new one almost anywhere. Try that with your Bosch CDI unit!

I like that one:D

I have had both in my car, MSD-6 and stock Bosch. I didnt notice any difference in performance. The MSD-6 came off of a 66 Corvette, big block, where is made a huge difference. With the MSD I was able to have larger plug gaps, but I didnt feel that helped. My idle is smooth with either one. THe advantage of the MSD was I could raise the red line limit, but to do that I had to have the distributor reworked.

msd install
 

just wanted to chim in and say i just installed the msd6al and high vibration coil also and was surprised to learn it cleaned up the majority of morning hesitations and length of warm up times, just ran better on the low end, guess the multiple sparks help out before 3000 rpm in my cars case...maybe my cars running too rich also...but i would recommend it....Oh my reasons to change it was merily for security, i did not know how old my bosch cdi was and didnt want to standed on the road.