New CA Evaporative Emissions Test (Damn)

[mnmasotto]

I took my 1987 Carrera to a "Test Only" facility today and my car failed!!!!

Per requirement by CA DMV I had my car tested at a Test Only facilty. My car passed the tail pipe sniff test with flying colors. The CO, Hydrocarbon and NO were way below expected. However, they now perform a feul system pressure test on all cars older than 1995. They place a pressure cap on the fuel tank inlet(not the gas cap) and pressurize the system. My cars fuel system did not hold the required pressure and therefore failed the "FUEL EVAPORATIVE CONTROL TEST". The center I took my car to said these old cars were failing this "new test" at a rate of approximately 50%.

The technician said my "Fuel Evaporative Control System" had a leak. He told me to check all the hoses, lines for a loose fitting or more likely a deteriorated hose. I checked the obvious hoses. They all look great! All the fittings were tight and looked good on visual inspection.

My question is: Is there any charts which show the actual location of all the components of this system? There is a small schematic of this system in the Bentley Manual but does not show where all the hoses are located. For example:

1) Where is the hose connecting the expansion tank in the front trunk to the rear carbon canister.

2) Where is the evaporation chamber?

3) How do I find the leak in the system? Do I start replacing everything hoping to fix the problem using the old shotgun approach.

Help please!! I have checked all prior posts with little usuable info. Believe it or not the Bently Manual has more info than my set of Porsch Factory Manuals.

[slodave]

When did this go into effect? I just smogged my car a less than 3 weeks ago at a test only and the guy only put my gas cap on the device.

Can't help with the issue, sorry.

[mnmasotto]

The technician said it just started this December. Again, He told me approximately 50% of these cars are failing this part of the exam. If this is true I am sure others have had this problem. Especially, considering my mechanic has been through my car over and over. I have never hesitated replacing anything that looks old or worn.

Also, I cannot find anything on this subject in the Factory Manual. Bentely has a small schematic but does not go into detail about the system.

I would like this thread to be quite comprehensive since there are likely to be other Pelicans with this problem.

[slodave]

Here are a couple of pix.

I didn't think there was much to it.




I smogged mine towards the end of November.

[Joe Bob]

Figure a way to pressurize the system and then get a solution of Dawn dish soap and water and spritz the fittings and hoses. Bubbles are leaks.

[slodave]

The hoses in my pix above or are there more? Check the fuel sender as well? I think the only other lines are under the tank and carry fuel.

Do tell, Mike. Thanks!

[mnmasotto]

You show a picture of the expansion chamber in the front trunk next to the gas tank. This has three connections. One is connected to the top of the gas tank. One is connected to the gas tank filler neck. The third one goes where? To the evaporation chamber or what? I do not know where this third hose goes? To the rear of the car? How does the carbon canister in the passenger rear fender hook up to this system?

[slodave]

The third line is shown in the second pic. It connects to a metal tube in the drivers front fender and I believe vents to the world.

[mnmasotto]

""The third line is shown in the second pic. It connects to a metal tube in the drivers front fender and I believe vents to the world.""
__________________
The schematic in the Bentely manual says it connects to the "Restictor". Where is the Restrictor? Is the Carbon Canistor physically connected to this system in any manner if so how? Is there a hose which runs to the rear of the car? These are the questions I have so I can inspect the entire system and test for leaks.

If this third hose vented to the outside environment in the front fender then the system would never hold pressure, correct?

[slodave]

I looked under the front fender and I can't see where the tube goes.

I need to take my bird to my parents. I will be happy to poke around more, in about 45 mins.

I see the canister in the rt. rear fender. Yikes. I need to replace those hoses!

[mnmasotto]

All of my hoses look this good. The plastic expansion tank has no obvious cracks. Where could the lpressure leak be??
Please excuse me, I am learning how to write on photos for the first time.

[mnmasotto]

This is the only schematic of the Fuel Evaporative System I can find. It is in the Bentely Manual. I cannot find anything on this subject in the Porsche Carrera Factory Manuals. I would like to know where all these items/components are located on the car.
Where are (3) and (4) located?

There must be a physical connection between (2) and (5) because the smog technician put a clamp on the hose connecting the carbon cannister to the engine compartment so the pressure would not leak from the system during the pressure test.

[Mark Charus]

While I'm not sure about the charcoal canister location in your model, the car should not have been tested if the vehicle must be jacked up to access it, some stations think they can test it upline, but do they clamp the right hose? its a porsche!and how many have they tested since '07.
I passed in Nov. 08 the LPET was not preformed, the 964 canister in the rear driver's fender, not very friendly.
It sounds from your explanation the test wasn't done correctly, but its already a fail. Did they even have the right cap? my guy didn't.Check out this link, its like LPET for dummies, check these two stiffs.http://www.bar.ca.gov/80_BARResources/04_Miscellaneous/Consumers/lpfetvideo.html
hope this helps, and pass a retest.

[Tigerrat]

How much pressure do they use? I'd try to replicate and just sniff for fuel vapors. Use like a Motive brake bleed set up I guess. No open flames or sparks of course and a well ventilated area as they say..... This is getting insane.

[slodave]

OK, some pix from the right rear side...

Charcoal canister with two tubes going in, one coming out.


the tubes coming going into the canister protrude through the inner fender - looking towards rear of car. The hose with the u-bend is the vent.


The larger of the two hoses disappears behind the airbox and I don't see where it terminates. The smaller one, has a reducer and connects to an even smaller diameter hose (which I replaced 2.5 years ago) I remember having to route it in a slightly different place as it connects to a metal pipe around the left rear swing arm base. My memory is a bit foggy to as exactly where.


I bet the hose up front that tucks behind the fuse box comes out at the left rear of the car, around the wing arm.

Looks like I have a few more hoses to replace in the next two years.

As for the rules becoming more stringent, yes, it's a pain, but if maintain our cars - even if we have to learn from smog failure, our cars will pass and maybe be a little more efficient, even cleaner and improve mileage.

[mnmasotto]

The pressure is 0.5 PSI. Those videos are great but they do not answer the questions as to the location of the components.

[slodave]

With all the pix that have been posted and the diagram, it all makes sense to me. The larger of the two hoses coming into the engine compartment connects to the rear of the airbox, in front of the air filter.

[Bart_dood]

Retro-active emissions laws make homer mad!!!

[Won]

The connection between 2 and 5 goes:
hose from expansion chamber (2) to hard fitting under the fuse panel ->
exists on the inside driver's side fender ->
another hose connection to evaporation chamber (4) situated behind the headlight bucket and above the washer fluid tank ->
smaller vacuum hose connection to another fitting on the chassis ->
exists under the fuse panel inside the trunk, you can see it right next to the bigger hose in the picture ->
goes all the way to the rear of the car and is plugged into the charcoal canister.

It is possible that the evaporation chamber has a crack in it, or the nipple on top connected to smaller hose is coming apart which is what happened to mine. The 2 hoses inside the fender well are exposed to elements and are probably dry, hardened and maybe even cracked.

[slodave]

Originally Posted by Won

smaller vacuum hose connection to another fitting on the chassis ->
exists under the fuse panel inside the trunk, you can see it right next to the bigger hose in the picture ->
goes all the way to the rear of the car and is plugged into the charcoal canister.

But not rubber all the way to the back?