newbie question about 911 purchase (longwinded)

catfishez · 05-09-2002, 03:36 AM

I need the straight truths about a 74+ 911sc purchase. first, I've been a huge fan of 911's-Since I was old enough to make engine revving noises with matchbox cars. Since those days I've been distracted by other vices. supercharged watercooled VW's, 13 sec. e.t. turbo MR2's, Kawasakis with 14k redlines, ect.. Second I'm a student with no real plans of earning a decent pension for some time. third, I'm very mechanically inclined with a very firm understanding of the theories that act on all components of most motor vehicles(however I've never worked on, driven,or even riden in a 911).anyways, I'm selling the bike this week, and the MR2 later this month which will put the funds above the average price of a 75-80 911 with no problems mentioned. So off I go to Southern California with the intent, among other things to actively search for a sound example to purchase. With me will be my father, a 30 veteran of the Mercedes mechanic/autobody trenches to spot any problems that may be hiding under paint,pistons,or plastic panels. So its fairly safe to say I'll be buying a car with no surprises. enough rambling- this will be my primary form of transportation but I'm a light driver, having rarely put more that 1k miles on the odometer in a month. So all you 74-82'ish owners, would you say from your experience that this purchase would be a bad idea from maintain issues you've typicaly encountered? should I be a little less expressive and go pickup a 300zx TT or perhaps an BMW? Is a 25 year old sports car going to eat my lunch regardless of the example and my attentions? have you as a 911owner ever formed a mental yearly expense record? once you beat the demons out of your ride, did the annual budget drop? OK i'm done thanks for any guidance you can offer.
SteveZ

05-09-2002, 04:03 AM

Never figure out how much you've spent over time. I did that...arrrrgggghhh

911s from 74-77 were not SCs. The earliest SC is a 78 model. Owning a 911 doesn't have to cost a fortune if only you're careful and especially if you, as you say, are mechanically handy.

My advice: Get an SC. 78 or newer.

catfishez · 05-09-2002, 04:22 AM

78+ =SC Doh!!! ok I guess I've smoked enough crack for today..

I looked over your coupe on the webpage.. very nice indeed!!! thats exactly what i'm looking for. I envy you.
thanks for the input. So would you say that the tales of expensive porsche ownership come partially from mechinics who overly prize their services
thanks again
SteveZ

gr8fl4porsche · gr8fl4porsche's Garage

I have owned my 87 for almost 2 years now. Logged about 3000 miles. Thanks to this board - the only mechanic who has touched it is me.

Rot 911 · 05-09-2002, 05:06 AM

Are you sure the sale of your Kawa and the MR2 will give you the funds for an SC? You are looking at needing from $10k to $15K plus an additional $2K for that first years maintenance/nice to have items. I also think you might be making a mistake in having a deadline to get the car. The more time spent learning about them, the better car you will end up buying. That said, with the dollar amount I mentioned you can get a very nice early 911 up to a decent SC. Spend some time on your search, that is at least half the fun.

epbrown · 05-09-2002, 06:03 AM

Maintaining a good example 911 is not that expensive. The problem is that nobody here stops at just maintaining the darn things! I've owned my 1983 911SC Targa for 2 years, 3 months. Insurance is $270/year and I've spent exactly $2350 on maintenance and repairs in that time. I've spent at least that much on H4 headlights, floormats, 16" wheels and new rear decklid, new steering wheel, and other doodads. Get a good example of an SC coupe, drive it regularly, learn to do basic maintenance, avoid the Porsche version of 2-footitis and you'll get off cheap.

Emanuel

GB83SC · 07:51 AM

Don't be in a hurry to find the perfect Porsche in a weekend these cars are 20 years old and you can buy the wrong one in a hurry. With your dad's experience with cars should be a big help.
I have a 83SC and love the car, no big problems with over 16 months of ownership, all the work performed by me thanks to the help of this board. Look for a car with few owners there are alot of cars out there with all kinds of stories regarding short ownership, those are the ones to pass on.
Good luck.
GB83SC

05-09-2002, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by epbrown
Maintaining a good example 911 is not that expensive. The problem is that nobody here stops at just maintaining the darn things!
Emanuel

EXACTLY!!!

pbs911 · pbs911's Garage

Reseach, reseach reseach. Be very prepared on the issues before you look for a car. Have a mental or written checklist to go through the inspection of each car you look at. Ask questions over the phone to avoid having to actually go look at the car if an answer does not meet to your expections. I did this and ended up having purchased the 2nd SC I looked at. It just happened to fit all of my criteria. For me, the mechanical and structural integrity of the car was more important that astestics.

Some will say you should look at as many as possible. That's one way, but if you know exactly what you want and what to look for, then when you see the right one you can jump on it.

Good luck in your search.

catfishez · 05-09-2002, 10:51 AM

thanks for all the responses and info, this has to be one of the most informed and knowlegely active forums I've encountered. Must be in some way related to the marque..... kinda refreshing.
anyways I'm in no real rush to purchase because I still have the VW to scoot around in and I have a month to become informed and another month to purchase. If the right car doesn't come along then I have no problems waiting. I've read through Mikkel's 911 buyers guid page and found it to be very enlighting, what other links have you guys found helpful?
thanks again
SteveZ

Planter91C2 · 05-09-2002, 10:55 AM

hey fish, this is interesting.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1825740908&indexURL=2#ebayphotohosting

Vol · Vol's Garage

As for the sanity of owning an SC as a daily driver and overall cost of ownership, etc:

An argument can be made that a properly maintained SC with ~100k miles (or even 150k) is one of the best price/performance risks you can take. Given we are talking 20 year old cars here, but you are talking about a solid chassis, fully galvinized so rust is unlikely an issue. Add to that the fact that 3.0 engines routinely go >200k miles with routine maintenance.. If the body and interior are clean, these are cars that can go a long time with a high smile/mile. Just look for the obvious upgrades such as pop-off valve, and carrera tensioners which will tell you something about the previous owner, as will service records...

Assuming an SC has had regular maintenance, and it's shocks/brakes/clutch have been replaced as necessary, the only component really suspect with >100k miles are the synchros in the gearbox. Oh ok, the alternator if original is going to give up some day soon.

I agree with those that say you should allow yourself more time than a weekend. In weekend you are putting a lot of pressure on yourself. As such you are creating a sellers' market. You really need the intangibles on your side. Assume every car you meet is guilty until it proves itself one of those unabused, excellent examples deserving of your ownership. You have said you haven't driven a 911. If you have driven quite a few you will know what is the likely spectrum. This will help you immensely as you try to decide which car is for you. Trust me when you get to SoCal with a weekend to find the right car and cash burning a hole in your pocket it's going to be hard to be objective. You will find that a lot of peoples' version of "excellent" varies dramatically from yours. As sharp as your father is, unless he gets a crash course on 911's, he is not going to know what to look for. I would recommend taking more time with things and arranging to have a neutral shop do a PPI. They are your advocate, and will pay for themselves many times over with a single oversight on your part. Your father can help you get to the short-list.

As for cost of ownership, since you can do your own oil change/valve adjustments, you can save $400-600 per year.
Expect to go through rear tires 2x as often as fronts, and don't expect to get many miles on the rears. If you are patient and buy a car that is >90% you will spend a lot less on it over a 5 year period than a lesser car.

But of course all of the above is well intentioned logical advice when in fact buying a sports car is a very emotional thing. Sometimes no matter how rational you try to be, you'll get swept away by a certain car and all bets are off! As in the rest of life, when/if this happens, hang on for the ride!! Sometimes the best laid plans are suddenly swept aside by passion, and who's to say we are not better for it :-)

Good luck!

Vol

71T 3.2

Jamie79SC · 05-09-2002, 12:59 PM

Listen to Vol.

Two years ago, he was my Porsche guru for the purchase of my first Porsche - a lovely 1979 SC. We searched the ads in Rennlist and Pelican, and got the word out throughout the 'community'. It took about 5 months to zero in on the right car. After I was as sure as I could be long-distance, I sprung for the one way airline ticket, got the PPI done and drove away a very happy man. I still am. If I hadn't had a Porsche spirit guide, I doubt I'd have made as good a selection.

Hellgate · 05-09-2002, 01:07 PM

Nissan? Nissans are evil.

catfishez · 05-09-2002, 01:15 PM

VOL: I'll have the entire month of June in SoCal to make a decision and had planned, as you said to look at the entire spectrum from the legitimate $20K examples to get a best case senario to the sub $10k -unfinished project- sales. then get the best example I can afford based on what I learn here and what I find there. if after a month I'm not satified with whats on the table I'll head home empty handed-wouldn't be the first time the cash stayed in the sock on the drive home. generaly I've always felt the car market was a bit bloated in SoCal but the saturation of 911's, climate and mechinic knowlege base is so good there it's probably the best single place to shop, I remember a newport beach dealer making a comment that Newport had the most Porsches per capita than any other city in the world- may not be the most acurate fact but interesting never-the-less.
Planter:

heheh thanks for thinking of me but thats not quite what come to mind when I think of porsche ownership.

Thanks
SteveZ

catfishez · 05-09-2002, 01:21 PM

hellgate: yeah Nissans are definetly evil, the Porsche has it beat in every sence of the word sportscar, but I could do worse. The nissan just has the performance,reliability, price I need if I can find a nice Porsche in the area.

Vol · Vol's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by catfishez
VOL: I'll have the entire month of June in SoCal to make a decision and had planned, as you said to look at the entire spectrum from the legitimate $20K examples to get a best case senario to the sub $10k -unfinished project- sales. then get the best example I can afford based on what I learn here and what I find there. if after a month I'm not satified with whats on the table I'll head home empty handedSteveZ

Catfish: I am certain that with a month to play with you will find a great car. One thing that tends to happen for people, is that once they start driving cars, their objectives start to change...
For example, some people think of early cars as the easiest way into the game, but after driving different cars, find themselves buying an SC. My associate at work just rolled up in a C2 when his search had been focused on SC/Carreras. Not to say that you will do this, just a note to keep a very open mind since you are new to the game. A more likely scenario of changing perceptions is the type of upgrades/modifications you might be interested in. Some start out wanting a perfectly stock car, others are looking for specific upgrades. Sometimes an upgrade that seems cool at first looses it's luster after a while... It's hard to go wrong with some of the classics such as SSI's, but you will be amazed at some of the goofy stuff people do over time. The final expression of which is often seen as a wack E-bay posting! Anyway, your research will help you determine which is the best combination of attributes for you.

Jeeze! A whole freaking month to hang out in SoCal looking at 911's. How's that for a good way to spend a summer! But DON'T go to the beach or have a few beers or for gosh sakes get distracted by the SCENERY fer crying out loud. This is serious business.... :-)

Vol

71T 3.2