Labor times?

fronesis · 05-02-2002, 06:15 AM

Hi all,

I'm afraid I'm not getting a square deal on the quote I just got. Can anyone give an informed estimate as to the total labor time that I good Porsche shop ought to charge for the following work:

Flush brake fluid
Replace one caliper
Replace all 4 rotors
Replace all brake pads
Replace ball joints
Install turbo tie rods
Mount and balance 4 tires
Alignment

thanks for any help--I'm really in a bind here...

john walker's workshop · 05-02-2002, 07:08 AM

labor only, about 2 hours for all the brake work, 1 hour on the ball joints because they can be a pain, 1 hour on the tie rods, 1 to 2 hours to align, depending on 2 way or 4 way, and 1-1.5 hours on the mount and balance because you have to be careful not to gouge the rims. times whatever they charge per hour. that should be enough time for an efficient tech to get it out.

Joeaksa · 05-02-2002, 07:10 AM

Also,

Where are you located? Doing the above work in Kansas City would not cost the same as in Los Angles or New York City. Cost of living should be entered into the picture as well.

JA

fronesis · 05-02-2002, 07:23 AM

JA: Of course, you're right about different labor rates. But it should take the same amount of time, no matter where you're doing it. The shop I contacted charges about $65/hr, which I consider very fair (perhaps a bit low) for the DC area.

But the quote they gave me was for 14 to 16 hours! And as John's post suggests, and I had suspected, this is only about 6 to 8 hours worth of work. I was prepared to pay $500 to $700 for this work, but the $1100 I was quoted just isn't right.

Thanks, John for confirming that this is not an enormous amount of work.

fronesis · 05-02-2002, 07:24 AM

Just to be clear: that $1100 figure, was ONLY for labor, not for any parts at all.

spinner · spinner's Garage

The brake work is relatively easy to do yourself and save $$. So, which shop wants to charge you them hours anyhow?

Paul

L Sjoberg · L Sjoberg's Garage

They probably charged you a book rate for the labor, as opposed to what it would actually take them to do the work. I was amazed when one of our local shops actually pulled out their quote book to justify a labor estimate! I guess that explains how your car can be done by Noon but you get billed for 6 hours of labor

fronesis · 05-02-2002, 11:45 AM

My earlier quote was from RPM, and I'm certainly not trying to slam them. They are a high-quality independent shop, and they really take care of their customers. And I don't mind paying book rate for good work. But there's a difference between paying an extra hour of labor for a valve adjustment and paying twice as much labor on a job like the one I described above (where everyting overlaps).

Does anyone have a recommendation for a quality shop in the Richmond (or DC, but really only south of DC or I have to drive for 100 minutes) area that would charge me a fair 7 hours for this work?

thanks!

Rick Lee · Rick Lee's Garage

This is a sore subject with me, as I just found out the hard way that some shops actually use a time-clock punch card to track labor time and some use the Chilton's Manual. I really don't mind if someone takes 5 hrs. to do a 2 hr. job, if they have an apprentice or whatever who needs to learn the ropes. But in such a case I should only be charged for whatever Chilton's says the job should take or however long it would the master wrench to do the job. I've recently been hit a little hard for a job I know the boss could have done in half the time his flunkies did it.

epbrown · 05-02-2002, 12:24 PM

Is it possible they're just quoting high for a safety margin? I know some shops would rather do this than deal with an irate customer when a simple job turns out to take longer than they thought. On cars as old as most of ours, complications can arise. Maybe they'll come in way under...

Emanuel

Superman · 05-02-2002, 12:25 PM

It's common for dealerships and dealership-like shops to charge the published number of hours, rather than the actual. They usually can get it done substantially quicker than the published times, and they keep the difference. No big deal if you're having them do one job. But where they are doing several things, like you need done, I would think they would re-calculate, rather than just add all those times together. For example, calipers have to come off anyway, in order to remove the rotors.

Rick Lee · Rick Lee's Garage

Good point Superman. Fronesis, you should make sure they don't just add all that stuff up. There's a lot of stuff you can do once you get a system all disassembled. Maybe check out Wayne's book and make a note of the "complimentary" (I forget the exact wording) fixes. Each project should list what else you can fix "while you're in there." Does the shop you mentioned only charge you once for removing the wheels, since they have to do that for several of the jobs you're having done?

fronesis · 05-02-2002, 12:43 PM

They are definitely ADDING everything up; otherwise, even going by book rates, they could never get up to the 15 or 16 hours that they want to charge. And in my experience with then in the past, they have never come in under their estimate, since the estimate is based on book rates, that's what they charge (unless complications arise and they charge more).

I could probably quibble with them about this, but I don't really want to fight them over it. What bothers me more than the total number they are quoting me is the idea that they think I don't know how high that number is. So I'd just prefer to find a shop who looks at this job and says, "well, we'll take the wheels and the rotors off, dissassemble the ball joints and tie rods, and then put everything back together--that should take about 8 hours."

Any recommendations?

Rick Lee · Rick Lee's Garage

Go to Dulles Int'l Motorsport in Herndon. They will treat you right and may not even charge you for the full amount of time it takes to do the work.

Doug E · 05-08-2002, 06:30 PM

I'll second Dulles if you don't mind driving to NOVA. They are first class in my book.

If you are in Richmond you might try calling Word Automotive. Tom there did a PPI for me on a 911 I was thinking about getting and he seemed to be a real straight shooter. I've never had any work done there but it might be worth a call.

tight as a bull's ass · tight as a bull's ass's Garage

bottom line: the're all crooks.

Just learn to do the job yourself, empower yourself, get to know your 911 and be confident that you did the job right, however long it takes.

I admire a lot of people on this board who do most of their own work - I have learned a lot and there is no substitute for successfully completing a project and feeling good about it.