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CT 3.2 E Class Cheater
 
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New Megasquirt project starting

Getting together a list of everything I will need to EFI my twin plug 3.2SS with S-Cams. Intake bore is at 40mm, was running 46mm Webers. Please feel free to input if you see something missing or have BTDT as it's ALL new to me!

1. PMO EFI Throttle Bodies (not sure what size yet?), Airhorns, Fuel Rails, PMO Manifolds, K & N Watershield Air Cleaners, PMO Linkage, Insulators, PMO Billet Vacuum Manifold, Delco Throttle Position Sensor Kit. Does PMO sell an EFI "range" pressure regulator? I have the stock SC CIS pump still in place.

2. MegaSquirt-III EMS System with MS3X Expansion V3.57 - Assembled

3. MegaSquirt Stimulator v2.2 - Assembled Unit

4. MegaSquirt Tuning Cable (DB9 Straight Thru) (and a USB to Serial adapter)

5. Innovate LC-1 Digital Wideband Controller with Sensor - 3769

6. 12' MegaSquirt Wiring Harness (MS1 / MS2 / MS3 Ready)

7. Injectors - (Not sure what size yet), Marren Injector is 20 minutes from here.

Car has an Electromotive HPV-1 crank fire ignition and I will use that at least until the fuel system is 99%.
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Old 05-28-2012, 05:29 AM
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Welcome to the club! That should be a really fun build.
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1983 3.4L 911SC turbo, GT35R, flame ringed 8.5:1 JE's, MS3-MS3X sequential EFI, LS2(D585) CNP twin-plug ignition, full-bay intercooler, J&S Interceptor (twin 993 knock sensors/bridges), and working A/C. Another e85 corn panzer.
Old 05-28-2012, 07:02 AM
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This is an ignorant question, and I don't mean this to be inflammatory. Is there a reason you didn't choose the micro squirt? I may just be missing something... It's $400 preassembled in a neat case and has dual plug ignition native with trims. I'm looking at one for my ducati 900 CR.

tadd
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Old 05-28-2012, 07:16 AM
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Seems like the majority here use the MegaSquirt when converting to EFI, and I will need all the support I can get!
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Old 05-28-2012, 07:22 AM
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It's the 'same' unit, just repackaged electronics. It uses all the same software.

http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/microsquirt-engine-management-system-30-wiring-harness-p-131.html

Just curious is all. Sorry to be a pest.

t
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Last edited by tadd; 05-28-2012 at 07:38 AM..
Old 05-28-2012, 07:35 AM
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Gary, Sounds like a good build.

the only major advantage to the MS3 system is full sequential(both fuel and spark). Not really needed in most cases. However, with ITBs you might notice a smoother idle when tuned right.

MS3 also adds a significant number of ports for additional features. If you are not controlling VVT, NOS, transmission or other systems then it just ends up being a bit more wiring to deal with. I personally like the simplicity of the MS2.

Tadd is right. The microsquirt is the same as an MS2 with a very small package. I have one for my upcoming 2.5SS project. I can hide all of the electronics and most of the wiring in my early car.

What ignition trigger is your Electromotive using? If this is a 36-1 or 60-2 wheel you can feed this directly into the MS unit. In this case get the JimStim to simulate the signal for setup on the bench. The standard Stim will not work here. Alternatively, you can feed the tach signal from the electromotive system into the MS ECU for a trigger signal.

You should consider what ignition system you will eventually integrate. The reason is to plan for later expansion so that wiring can be semi-installed right now. Beats ripping stuff out at a later date when you want to integrate spark.
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Old 05-28-2012, 08:27 AM
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Here's a few things that come to mind:

These may not be the exact units that you choose, but I have used them and they work well.

Fuel block:
Earl's Performance 100181ERL - Earl's Performance Fuel Distribution Blocks - Overview - SummitRacing.com

Fuel pressure gauge:
Russell Performance 650340 - Russell Analog Fuel Pressure Gauges - Overview - SummitRacing.com

Pressure regulator:
Search Results for msd 2222 - SummitRacing.com

If you pm me with your email address, I'll send you the Excel parts list for my Speed Triple EFI kit....it's not all relevant to your build, but it will be a good checklist/starting point for you...and you can modify it for your own use...to list and keep track of the bits you need, etc.

regards,
al
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Old 05-28-2012, 08:28 AM
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Hi, Sounds like a good start and welcome to the club. I'm doing a similar thing with a stock SC and Jenvey ITB's. I'm wondering what cam works best? And I'm also interested in what exhaust system works best? Does the PMO need spacers between the head and the intake? Does the throttle linkage connect straight to the existing hardware linkages on the engine? I think you'll also need a header to connect all the vacuum lines from the ITB's to the vacuum and then run to the MS.
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Old 05-28-2012, 08:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpnovak View Post
Gary, Sounds like a good build.

the only major advantage to the MS3 system is full sequential(both fuel and spark). Not really needed in most cases. However, with ITBs you might notice a smoother idle when tuned right.

MS3 also adds a significant number of ports for additional features. If you are not controlling VVT, NOS, transmission or other systems then it just ends up being a bit more wiring to deal with. I personally like the simplicity of the MS2.

Tadd is right. The microsquirt is the same as an MS2 with a very small package. I have one for my upcoming 2.5SS project. I can hide all of the electronics and most of the wiring in my early car.

What ignition trigger is your Electromotive using? If this is a 36-1 or 60-2 wheel you can feed this directly into the MS unit. In this case get the JimStim to simulate the signal for setup on the bench. The standard Stim will not work here. Alternatively, you can feed the tach signal from the electromotive system into the MS ECU for a trigger signal.

You should consider what ignition system you will eventually integrate. The reason is to plan for later expansion so that wiring can be semi-installed right now. Beats ripping stuff out at a later date when you want to integrate spark.
Jamie - The HPV-1 uses a 60-minus-2 tooth crank trigger wheel and your right, I don't need all the features an MS-III offers (and the added complexity). Here is my revised list -

MegaSquirt-II EMS System - SMD PCB3.57 Assembled ECU
12' MegaSquirt Wiring Harness (MS1 / MS2 / MS3 Ready)
JimStim 1.5 MegaSquirt Stimulator w/ Wheel Simulator - Assembled
MegaSquirt Stimulator / DIYPNP Power Supply
MegaSquirt Tuning Cable (DB9 Straight Thru)
Innovate LC-1 Digital Wideband Controller with Sensor - 3769
EAR-100181ERL Fuel Block, Y-Type, Billet Aluminum, Natural, 3/8 in. NPT Female Inlet, -6 AN Male Outlets, Each
Megan Racing 0-100 Blue Fuel Pressure (return type) Regulator with Gauge

Ordered the PMO EFI kit (40mm throttle bodies) today... i'll speak with Rich at Marren injectors this week to get his suggestion on injector size but what else should I know about the injectors specs? Just bought "Performance Fuel Injection Systems" and will start my education soon...
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Last edited by GaryR; 06-05-2012 at 04:07 PM..
Old 06-05-2012, 03:41 PM
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Am not to familiar with the Mega squirt ECU, but have done many EFI conversions on many model cars.

You wont need that Earls fuel distribution block... plumb the fuel into one of the TB rails.. make a crossover to the other bank of TBs then to the fuel pressure regulator, then the return to the tank..you can add a pulse dampner, but in practice have not seen the need..

the Innovate seems like it has a checkered record.. There are other very good options out there.

Are you planning on plumbing the fuel system with braided AN hose? make sure you can adapt the Megan regulator to -6 hose..

I have used Aeromotive regulators, the one I like is twice the price of the Megan regulator.. just don't feel comfortable skimping there

I have dealt with Marren many times, they are really good at what they do

According to most injector sizing apps you will need 22# injectors

Marren injector selection

What fuel pump do you currently have? You have carbs now.. so I am thinking you will need a high pressure fuel pump... Walbro makes some really nice ones.
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Last edited by TimT; 06-05-2012 at 05:24 PM..
Old 06-05-2012, 05:15 PM
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Oops just noticed you have the CIS pump in place... disregard the Walbro rec.
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who are those guys? <<< ( Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid)
Rent a GT3RS from us!! Call or e-mail.
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BBS wheels
Fikse wheels
Redline motors oils
Swepco
1500 hp chassis dyno
Old 06-05-2012, 05:20 PM
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Tim - The Megan regulator has standard push fittings on it but I intend to switch them out to AN. What have you heard about Innovate? I have heard only good things so far..
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Old 06-06-2012, 03:29 AM
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Gary... you can ditch the electromotive if you want and use the MS3X I've done that (and the 3X is something you get with the MS3 vs the Microsquirt, and is imo good in case you plan on some future change to sequential injection etc - which I'm going to be doing once i get all my motor parts in so I can get the assembly - Thanks to SFJ911 for selling me his Clewett cam position sensor) on my car, and will likely be pulling the XDI out and trying to sell it (cost recovery is always nice)./
Old 06-06-2012, 03:45 AM
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In fact, on my new build, I'm ditching the electromotive coil DFU as well, and going with the DIYautotune (imo the best place to get stuff for this project) IGN-6 modules since i'm going twin plug, and these modules are somewhat smaller and therefore can fit into the space available. Both the DFU and these coils require drivers. you can add the BIP (i forget the numbers) to your MS3 unit, or as i did, use their Quad Spark driver module (in my case 2 are needed) to take the ms3x signal and drive the coils (they basically packaged up 4 of the BIP drivers in a nice package).
Old 06-06-2012, 04:05 AM
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I plan on keeping the HPV-1 until the fuel system is 99% finished/tuned. At that point I can decide on what type of ignition upgrade to go with. What advantage will you get by ditching the XDI system?
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Old 06-06-2012, 06:06 AM
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well in my case the XDI is not programmable, so the advance settings are set by pots. with the 3X it gives me more control over the timing. Its also alot cheaper to go with the 3X setup for my twin plug project than buying all that is needed to use the xdi in such a setup. Even with buying 2 new coil packs, I'm at ~200 for twin plug ignition (not including wires and the head work - but those are needed in any configuration)
Old 06-06-2012, 08:26 AM
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Gary, When you get there... twin plug, COP, wasted spark, MS2. Enough said.

When you compare the difference in price between coil packs plus custom wires the COP setup is quite comparable.

Also, Ford EDIS has a COP controller that can interface easily with MS.
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Old 06-06-2012, 09:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpnovak View Post
Gary, When you get there... twin plug, COP, wasted spark, MS2. Enough said.

When you compare the difference in price between coil packs plus custom wires the COP setup is quite comparable.

Also, Ford EDIS has a COP controller that can interface easily with MS.
Jamie - The info for the MS2 says it can control one coil, I assume I am just reading that wrong and I will have no issue (once the time comes) running all the coils for my twin plug setup (It does mention the Ford EDIS though)?

Does everything else on my lst make sense? I want it as KISS as possible but also don't want to bump into limitations to save $$..
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Last edited by GaryR; 06-06-2012 at 10:09 AM..
Old 06-06-2012, 09:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TimT View Post
According to most injector sizing apps you will need 22# injectors

Marren injector selection
Tim - I'm told this motor puts out 250HP (conservatively) and I come up with 26# injectors with a BSFC of .05 and 20# with a BSFC of .04 on the Marren site, am I getting something wrong? I'll speak with them about it either way.
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Last edited by GaryR; 06-06-2012 at 10:08 AM..
Old 06-06-2012, 10:05 AM
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I hope you have a good quality usb to serial adapter. Alot of problems arise from using them. I believe Innovate has a wireless unit that bypasses the adapter.
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Old 06-06-2012, 12:14 PM
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