Cleaning/lubing the helper spring and clutch guide tube

[oh snap]

I have an intermittent sticky clutch on my 98k mile 85. occasionally when I get to where I feel like the clutch should be engaging, there is a delay. I keep my foot still and the clutch "catches up"

I want to try and eliminate a couple of things before I start ordering parts to replace parts that might be fine. I have a pedal cluster bushing kit and i plan to replace the cable either way.

My questions:

Is it possible to lube the guide tube without removing the clutch? If so what is the procedure/products involved?

What type of lube should I use on the helper spring assembly? I was going to spray down with wd40 to get any muck off, after that is just plain multipurpose grease the way to go? Or lithium grease? (Is there a summary of what lubricant go where somewhere?)

Thanks.

[Jdub]

The Helper spring question is a great one. I used to advocate cleaning it of grit, then smearing grease into the spring to keep it lubed and grit/water out. Now, I am not so sure that procedure did not contribute to premature death (or, may have been the quality of the spring itself I am told - be picky about OEM here). So I would advise cleaning it and not lubing in any way.

It is of course critical that the Snap Retainer Clip (part #999-166-001-02-M260) for clevis fork (#999-166-002-02-M260) be new. This is the part that goes into the tiny bearing residing inside the "ear" of the clutch arm actuated by the clutch pedal. This item wears out the bearing, begins to cut an oval notch into the ear metal, and if you let it go long enough you will have to reweld and drill the hole to fit the bearing once again. PITA.

Your notchiness may be related to that but you will see when you pull the pedal cluster. I will say rebuilding the cluster, putting in a new clutch cable, and in my case new helper spring transformed the feel of the clutch - I could push it down with my pinky it was so smooth.

Finally, a while you are in there is the master cylinder believe it or not. You will be accessing the support strut from the underside of the MC and so if you have been comtemplating a new MC now would be the time.

[oh snap]

Thanks for the reply. I followed your advice with regards to the helper spring. I did my best to clean it with wd40. Well see how that goes, the spring looks in good shape overall. I go back and forth with whether I should replace it or not. Its not to heavy, but its definitely not something I could do with my pinky. In my test drive it was harder to get into first so i may have to readjust the clutch cable while I wait for the new one. Ill have another look when i do that and maybe get a helper to press the clutch and see how it looks in action

I also got into the pedal cluster today to get a look and to lube a squeaky clutch spring. I tried white lithium on the connecting ends but it still squeaked so i gave it a quick once over with wd40 and that fixed it. Should it be replaced as well when I do the cluster? Was the creaking a warning of imminent failure or just the need for a bit of lube. I wouldn't mind saving the $25 on the part if it doesn't typically fail, but if "it might be on its way out" I may as well do it all now.

Thanks again for any insight. Anyone know about lubing the guide tube with the engine in? I've read that it can be done though its not ideal. I'm not quite ready to drop the engine so if i can improve it a little in the mean time I'd be happy.

[oh snap]

Anyone on lubing the guide tune with engine in?

[Ronnie's.930]

This comes up from time to time in the Turbo forum and spray-on lithium grease is what most recommend for the guide tube.

clutch getting stiff, old "Omega" spring?

[oh snap]

Thanks Ronnie's930, thats very helpful. Is their any access to that panel with the tranny/engine in or is it pretty tight? Ill find out when I get under the car again but it would be helpful if anyone knows in advance.

[Alan Lindquist]

Have you confirmed that the bushing on the clevis pin for the clutch cable attachment to the pedal cluster is healthy? Mine was busted in half and the brass pin was worn half-through. It's easy to check, and cheap to replace.

Have you ever pulled the string on a compound bow (archery)? There's a cam effect. If your clevis bushing is worn/busted then you are getting an asymmetrical pull - like on a compound bow.

Just a guess - but that would cause noise which would quiet down with lube, but would still be "notchy" when you depress the pedal.

Ask me how I know.

[911pcars]

FWIW, lithium grease isn't water resistant, and water usually lurks on the road a few inches away. And I wouldn't consider WD40 lasting longer than kerosene-diluted machine oil which I suspect describes it pretty well. Instead, I'd suggest a water-proof synthetic grease for longer-lasting lubrication. Don't overdo it.

Sherwood

[oh snap]

There isn't really a notchy feel to my pedal as far as I can tell. The action is smooth but made a creaking noise for both pedal down and up. I have the clevis pin in my shopping cart and will replace it either way (its cheap, may as well) but I didn't notice anything looking damaged or worn when i was in the assembly to lube the spring.

The clutch works well most of the time. Sometimes though the clutch out/gas on motion doesn't go flawlessly. Part of it feels like the clutch is lagging, but also the car stumbles occasionally coming onto gas from idle. I will clean/recalibrate the MAF track soon to see if that helps with that issue. There are a few nagging little problems with my car so I'm just trying to eliminate "usual suspects" for the them as I discover possibilities by reading these forums. Especially on things that can be fixed without needing new parts.

[oh snap]

Originally Posted by 911pcars

FWIW, lithium grease isn't water resistant, and water usually lurks on the road a few inches away. And I wouldn't consider WD40 lasting longer than kerosene-diluted machine oil which I suspect describes it pretty well. Instead, I'd suggest a water-proof synthetic grease for longer-lasting lubrication. Don't overdo it.

Sherwood

That's good info, thank you Sherwood.

[Ronnie's.930]

Originally Posted by oh snap

Thanks Ronnie's930, thats very helpful. Is their any access to that panel with the tranny/engine in or is it pretty tight? Ill find out when I get under the car again but it would be helpful if anyone knows in advance.

There is a decent sized hole, or notch in the transmission bell housing on the 930 box that lets you see into the general guide tube area. One of the posts in that thread I linked to describes it and describes getting the spray tube into the proper spot . . .don't know about the transmission in your car, however.

I don't think much, if any, water gets on the guide tube (not sure if the other poster was referring to this or not with his caution against lithium grease).

[Ronnie's.930]

Here is an interesting read regarding guide tube wear -

Throw out bearing guide tube

[oh snap]

Thanks for the additional info Ronnie, from pictures it looks like the 915 has a similar access panel, but I cant see a way to get to it with the engine in. Im on a roller under the car on jack stands though, it might be accessible with a lift. I may try again at a later date, but after lubing and now adjusting the clutch cable, the actuation doesnt seem to stick as much (placebo maybe).

On the clutch cable adjustment:
I adjusted the cable with the cable off to 1.2mm of gap and then cable on to 1.0 mm. I had to back the adjustment screw almost all the way out to get 1.2mm and then attach the cable at the transmission and bring the adjuster nuts almost as far towards the back of the car as it would go to get it to 1.0mm.

This made the clutch feel like it was at the bottom of the pedal with a lot of slack before the clutch disengaged. It reengaged right after I lifted off the floor board. I readjusted the cable nuts at the trans further forward until the clutch felt like it it engaged at the middle of the pedal throw. This leaves less than 1mm at the adjuster screw. It was more like 0.5mm or maybe a little less.

That said the pedal feels like its working perfectly. The clutch doesnt slip if I try to take it from 2k rpm up in 5th, it doesnt balk too much (less than it did before anyway) if I do a low speed downshift from 2nd to 1st, and it doesnt grind into reverse. Does this sound ok to you guys? The pedal feels good, not too long with the action right in the middle. I assume it is due to worn parts somewhere (cable, pedal cluster or omega spring) that I will replace after I order from Pelican.

Anyone had something similar?

[brads911sc]

I had the exact same experience. I ignored the mm measurement the last time and just adjusted it so that the pedal was "normal"... engages halfway between fully up and fully depressed. I didn't like it when it engaged right off the bottom...

Originally Posted by oh snap

On the clutch cable adjustment:
I adjusted the cable with the cable off to 1.2mm of gap and then cable on to 1.0 mm. I had to back the adjustment screw almost all the way out to get 1.2mm and then attach the cable at the transmission and bring the adjuster nuts almost as far towards the back of the car as it would go to get it to 1.0mm.

This made the clutch feel like it was at the bottom of the pedal with a lot of slack before the clutch disengaged. It reengaged right after I lifted off the floor board. I readjusted the cable nuts at the trans further forward until the clutch felt like it it engaged at the middle of the pedal throw. This leaves less than 1mm at the adjuster screw. It was more like 0.5mm or maybe a little less.


Anyone had something similar?

[oh snap]

Good to know Im not alone. I will update again if the new parts fix it or if i find the problem when I am installing them