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Vereeken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Belgium
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Me think you have a Euro SC (but with AIRCO you lucky bastard). So i do not think you have vacuum retard.

Look at this:

Euro SC troubleshooting over

Given that you say it is still an SC of 1983 you have the very last of the line and I have the impression they threw at it all they had left in the parts bin.

Take a good look at the WUR part number before going further.

I am also guessing you have a Carrera front bumper with integrated fog-lights? Correct?

Michel

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Old 07-15-2012, 10:53 AM
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I think you folks may be on to something. I disconnected the return line that is right beside the line I have the tester hooked to. (unfortunately it twisted off the line as I was not aware there was a double nut there) I ran the test you suggested and NO fuel came out of the return line when I opened the valve. I suppose I need to drop the engine to get at the return line in the back of the distributor. What do you suggest I do next?
Old 07-15-2012, 03:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darklever49 View Post
I think you folks may be on to something. I disconnected the return line that is right beside the line I have the tester hooked to. (unfortunately it twisted off the line as I was not aware there was a double nut there) I ran the test you suggested and NO fuel came out of the return line when I opened the valve. I suppose I need to drop the engine to get at the return line in the back of the distributor. What do you suggest I do next?
Just to be clear, you removed the return line from the wur and the line separated from the fitting. You pressurized the fuel pump with the valve closed on your gauge set then slowly opened the valve but no fuel came out of the outlet of the wur, is that correct? Or did you remove the return line from the "T" at the return line that runs back to the tank from the fuel distributor?

You can remove the entire wur from the engine and inspect the inlet port after removing the fitting to see if the screen is gummed up. This can be done with the wur installed, but it is so easy to remove I'd suggest you do it that way. Further, with it removed, you can disassemble the wur (lots of threads on this) and clean the area where the diaphragm that controls the fuel flow is located, if needed.

Can't help you on the return line until it's clear just where the line was twisted off.
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Old 07-15-2012, 05:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darklever49 View Post
I think you folks may be on to something. I disconnected the return line that is right beside the line I have the tester hooked to. (unfortunately it twisted off the line as I was not aware there was a double nut there) I ran the test you suggested and NO fuel came out of the return line when I opened the valve. I suppose I need to drop the engine to get at the return line in the back of the distributor. What do you suggest I do next?

dark,

There is no need to drop the engine with a problem like yours unless you want to experience taking the engine out. Just to make sure I understood you, and your test, could you take picture of the twisted fuel line? Even with a new fuel line, you have not demonstrated that fuel goes thru the WUR. This could be the culprit!!! Unless you test and verify, we are only guessing. And I don't like it.

Please do this test so we could eliminate if the WUR is causing this non-flow problem.
1). Remove the WUR from the engine.
2). Connect the CIS pressure gauge to the fuel line you disconnected from the WUR. This is a typical set-up for checking system and control fuel pressure. Open the valve (control fuel test). And plug the return line you disconnected from the WUR. If the fitting is an 8 mm banjo use a bolt or if you have a compression fitting, use a plastic hose.
3). The electrical plug is not needed for the test so unplug it from WUR.
4). Place the WUR in jar or container and set the container outside the engine bay.
5). Start the FP by jumpering 87a-30 (ignition switch @ ON/Run). Whatever fuel gets thru the WUR would be contained the vessel. But the return line must be plugged.
6). If you don't get sufficient flow of fuel thru the WUR you found the culprit!!!!!

Until you do this basic test for locating the restriction, you are wasting your time and people's time trying to assist you. The guys helping you are troubleshooters not magicians. Keep us posted.

Tony
Old 07-15-2012, 05:14 PM
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First of all, I should have told you that this is a Euro 911 and I don't know if that makes a difference or if the fuel system is the same. Here is a picture of the line I twisted off. The test gauge is hooked up to the other outlet. When I was trying to remove the return line I had not removed the blower air tubes and did not see the fitting and wa unaware it was turning out instead of the flanged fitting.

Old 07-15-2012, 05:56 PM
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Tony, I will remove the WUR tomorrow and do the test you request. Thanks for your patients.
Old 07-15-2012, 06:00 PM
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Wow, no Banjo on your system... Steel line running from wur to the return line tee?
Always use 2 wrenches when removing fuel line fittings.
Looks like you'll need to make a new line.
You could use a banjo fitting and some flexible line clamped onto the steel line once you cut it off. (Pressure is lower on return side.)
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Old 07-15-2012, 09:31 PM
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This is a late Euro SC with a WUR 089 type installed with the vacuum hose at the bottom left going to the thermal valve and the vacuum connection on the top behind the fuel lines going to atmosphere or to the front of the throttle body where there is no vacuum (only atmosphere).

The fuel line that is sheard off is standard to this SC and requires (out of my head) two size 10 open wrenches. Even beter is a brake nipple type of wrench.
You need to WD 40 the top to get it off. The nut that sits over the fuel line has a tendency to bind with the fuel line itself.
The lower nut should remain steady while you undo the top of the fuel line.

The fuel line you broke is hard to reinstall because it goes all the way behind the TB to the back of the FD. Backpain in sight ahoy!

Michel
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Old 07-15-2012, 10:32 PM
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1979 924 similar control pressure problem

I haven't adjusted the pressure relief valve on the fuel dist. because that regulates the system pressure, that reads normal readings. I won't tear into the factory rebuilt wur as that would void the warranty but I have old ones laying around that I could experment with. But I've had 2 different rebuilt wur's on the car and another known good wur from a different car on and still high control pressure readings. Adjusting the wur might fix the problem but the wur isnt whats causing the high pressure readings. Normaly would be a bad wur or plugged line causing the high control pressure readings.
Old 07-16-2012, 09:43 AM
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How did you know?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gene321 View Post
I haven't adjusted the pressure relief valve on the fuel dist. because that regulates the system pressure, that reads normal readings. I won't tear into the factory rebuilt wur as that would void the warranty but I have old ones laying around that I could experment with. But I've had 2 different rebuilt wur's on the car and another known good wur from a different car on and still high control pressure readings. Adjusting the wur might fix the problem but the wur isnt whats causing the high pressure readings. Normaly would be a bad wur or plugged line causing the high control pressure readings.

Gene,

You need to test and confirm. Assuming too many things to be OK makes the troubleshooting very difficult. You don't have a control fuel pressure. You got system pressures!!!!! And their values are the same. Until you are able to make the fuel flow thru the WUR and obtain an acceptable level of fuel control pressure, you have zero/nada chance of making the engine run. I directed you to this thread because your problem and the problem experienced by the OP are very very similar in nature.

The big difference between the two of you is that the OP gives us feedback and were doing something to locate the problem. The emails between us were too long and exhaustive. Yet, not a single action on your part has been initiated after all the details I've given you. So keep close to this thread and you'll might pick up the tricks to fix your problem.

Tony
Old 07-16-2012, 11:18 AM
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I am sorry but I do not understand your test. I have removed the WUR from the car and cleaned out the filter and hooked up the pressure tester. With the key on and the valve closed I have about 4.5 bars (68psi) and when I open the valve and let the fuel flow into the container I get 1 bar. What next?
Old 07-16-2012, 03:08 PM
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By the way, I didn't have anything to plug the line that would normally return to the WUR so I placed it in a container as well. Nothing came out of the line during the test.
Old 07-16-2012, 03:10 PM
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Thye reason I did not plug the line is that is the one that was twisted off removing the WUR and no one here has metric compression fittings for the 4mm tube so I have to order that and it will take a few days.
Old 07-16-2012, 03:12 PM
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If that return line must be plugged to get a correct reading I can pinch it off with a vice grip and cut that part off when I fix it. Is that a requirement?
Old 07-16-2012, 03:15 PM
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Test results........

Quote:
Originally Posted by darklever49 View Post
I am sorry but I do not understand your test. I have removed the WUR from the car and cleaned out the filter and hooked up the pressure tester. With the key on and the valve closed I have about 4.5 bars (68psi) and when I open the valve and let the fuel flow into the container I get 1 bar. What next?

dark,

We are looking for as pressure drop. But the pressure drop should be fuel flowing out from the system via WUR only. The broken return line should be crimped/plugged/blocked for the test to be valid. Did you get fuel in the container? Did the return line (damaged line) expell some fuel? Please let me know and I could tell you where the problem could be. Keep us posted. Thanks.

Tony
Old 07-16-2012, 04:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darklever49 View Post
By the way, I didn't have anything to plug the line that would normally return to the WUR so I placed it in a container as well. Nothing came out of the line during the test.
Quote:
Originally Posted by boyt911sc View Post
dark,

We are looking for as pressure drop. But the pressure drop should be fuel flowing out from the system via WUR only. The broken return line should be crimped/plugged/blocked for the test to be valid. Did you get fuel in the container? Did the return line (damaged line) expell some fuel? Please let me know and I could tell you where the problem could be. Keep us posted. Thanks.

Tony
If I may interject.

From darklever's post, it sounds like the line that was broken from the wur and still connects to the return line did not expel fuel during the test even though he did not plug it. However, he did get fuel flow from the wur and pressure dropped to 1 bar. It looks like the broken line which is still connected to the return line, is blocked and would cause the problem he has been having.

Dark, am I correct on my understanding of this--fuel flowed out of the broken connector on the wur outlet, pressure dropped, no fuel flowed from the broken end of the wur return line even though it was not manually plugged?

Tony, I think you may have the answer here.
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Old 07-16-2012, 04:59 PM
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did you ever check post #8? this should be checked first. people always blame the fuel system. it may well be wonky, but experienced techs check the frequency valve function first on 80-83 SCs.
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Old 07-16-2012, 05:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ossiblue View Post
If I may interject.

From darklever's post, it sounds like the line that was broken from the wur and still connects to the return line did not expel fuel during the test even though he did not plug it. However, he did get fuel flow from the wur and pressure dropped to 1 bar. It looks like the broken line which is still connected to the return line, is blocked and would cause the problem he has been having.

Dark, am I correct on my understanding of this--fuel flowed out of the broken connector on the wur outlet, pressure dropped, no fuel flowed from the broken end of the wur return line even though it was not manually plugged?

Tony, I think you may have the answer here.

Larry,

I have similar interpretation of his posts (replies). That's the reason I suggested the WUR in a jar separated from the broken return line that should be plugged. So the flowing fuel if any would lead to the culprit/s. For some strange reason, we approach the problem solving in similar manner.

The WUR could have been clogged or not before. But one thing that has been demonstrated from the test result is that fuel flows thru the WUR. Another thing that I wanted to determine, was the twisted/damaged return fuel line causing the restriction or not? Or the flow restriction was already there before the metal line was damaged? These are some questions in my head that need to be addressed or answered.

Tony
Old 07-16-2012, 06:17 PM
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I am pleased to announce the black baby is running like new. I took the WUR off and cleaned it up. The screen did have a little junk in it. I did the test in the pan and got the fuel flowing in the pan. Hooked everything back up and put a temp fuel line over the steel one and clamped it on. It fired right up and it runs great and idles perfectly.
Now I just need to find about 6 inches of 4mm steel line and a couple of 4mm cocouplers and I will be good to go. No one around here carries that stuff or at least I haven't found them yet.
Thanks to everyone for your patients and help. It was very much appreciated.
Old 07-16-2012, 07:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by john walker's workshop View Post
did you ever check post #8? this should be checked first. people always blame the fuel system. it may well be wonky, but experienced techs check the frequency valve function first on 80-83 SCs.
John,

It does not matter if the FV is working or not!!!!!He does not have a manageable control fuel pressure. How do you expect a CIS engine like a Porsche, BMW, Mercedes Benz, Volvo, Ferrari, etc. to even start and idle if the cold control fuel pressure is as much as the system pressure. How do you even expect the engine to run?

You are the master and the guru. Would appreciate sharing you knowledge regarding to this topic. Thanks.

Tony

Old 07-16-2012, 07:25 PM
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