A/C Condenser Clearance Question??

[Craig Roche]

I'm doing some planning for my A/C upgrade. My engine is out so I can't tell if there is room for this or not. Here's the question: Will a condenser that is pretty much the same thickness but is 12" wide fit on the decklid and clear everything on the engine. Does anyone know or could someone look at their car? The car is an 84 Carrera stock. Thanks!!

[SeaDweller]

At 12", you'll be into the fan housing, and likely the A/C compressor pulley as well...........If you're looking at aftermarket condensors, bear in mind that they're not likely to have the slight arc in them to conform to the lid either.

When I restored the A/C on my '78 SC, I used a factory 964 condensor. It had better flow characteristics than the earlier model condensors, and bolted right up to the lid. I had to make a center bracket, but if your car has A/C currently, the bracket should already be there.

Are you planning to run R12 or R134?

[Jim Sims]

If you are looking for a better condenser for the rear deck lid I recommend this one:

http://www.scottsind.com/Navigation/PartsForSale/PartsForSale.htm

I installed one last summer on my son's '73; it is a good piece of hardware, fits perfectly and comes with the mounting hardware. The fittings are available in both o-ring and flare type; as we were changing hoses we went to the less leak prone o-ring fittings.

See attached image:

Jim

[Craig Roche]

Jim,

That looks like a nice unit. Pricey??

[Jim Sims]

Yep; I'll see if I can find the invoice. $446.83 including insured UPS shipping. Jim

[89turbocabmike]

Jim, what kind of performance improvement did you find with the upgraded unit?

[Jim Sims]

Car didn't have A/C before (we installed a 1976 NOS dealer add-on system but with this better condenser) so we do not have a before and after comparison with this car (a 73T). It does do better (5 to 10 F colder air) and has stayed leak tight relative to the exact same system in my '76 but with an original single pass condenser with flare type fittings. This new condenser is a three pass unit with more robust reinforcing brackets to better support the fittings against hose loads and better mounts to the decklid. The car (the '73T) will not remain cool if it stands still in traffic; air must move over the condenser by virtue of higher engine fan speeds and forward motion of the car. Jim

[SeaDweller]

FYI - The 964 condenser I purchased was a brand new factory unit, and I paid $140 for it from Ian's European in south Florida. If you keep an eye out, you can come across them. They too are multi-pass units.

I converted my system back to R12 (the PO converted it to R134), and it would freeze you out of the car when I finished restoring it.

[fintstone]

Michael
Any chance of a picture of your install? Did you do anything else..ie compressor, etc?
Stoney

[SeaDweller]

I'm sorry to say that I did not take any pictures of the work, if you can believe it. I was too involved in the project to think about it, but in retrospect, it was a mistake......

My '78 SC was a Euro car, so it had a 930 style condenser on the lid, a rear quarter condenser cooled by a fan, and an underdash A/C unit. You can search the archives, as I believe I've gone pretty in depth as to what I did, but in a nutshell, I stripped the entire system from the car, replaced all the A/C lines, and replaced or reconditioned every part in the system, including a new rear lid condensor and compressor.

If you're interested in the gory details, let me know!

[fintstone]

Michael
Thanks. Sounds like what I am doing. Did you upgrade to a sanden or sieko compressor?

[SeaDweller]

Sanden...........Don't forget to replace the dryer and expansion valve, particularly if you're converting back to R12 from R134.

[Nitrometano]

and put two 10" electric fans between the spoiler grill and the condenser putting fresh air into the engine compartmen. You will have two beneffits: 1. colder a/c tempreratures
2. no hot engine problems in heavy traffic any more.

[jtratza]

Nitro,
I thought there was no clearance between the grille and the condenser unless you have a tail...On the car of course. The only fans I have heard of were attached under the condenser and there seems to be some debate over their effectiveness. I'm gonna buck the debate and try to get a pair installed under the condenser. At least that should help in traffic.

[Nitrometano]

That's correct. You will need a tail like Carrera or Turbo to put the fans under the condenser. If you have CIS injection system, you will need to modify the air filter box by cutting the plastic tube from were the engine sucks air and leave only the box. If you have Webers you can not put the fans under the condenser. I dont know if the fans fix under the consender if you have a Motronic fuel system.

[brcorp]

Craig,
What is wrong with your stock condenser? Why not just add an additional condenser, underbelly of fender well.

Nitrometano,
Do you have any picts of fans mounetd in the tail?

[Nitrometano]

This are some photos of the pair of electric fans fixed between the tail grill and the condenser. And other pics for the CIS air box modification if you are planning to put only a fan under the condenser. This photos was taken from two different 911 Porsches from different years and with differents fuel systems.

[brcorp]

Nitrometano,

Thanks for posting the picts! What size fans are those? Brand, Spal? Part number? Any info would help.

[Nitrometano]

I dont know the fan brand. I buy the fans for the green Porsche 5 years ago and for the black Porsche 4 years ago and they still working. The size is 10 inches and I brought them form a A/C shop. Also you can buy it from any auto parts, but the fan that the auto parts sales is for radiators and they only put higher volume of air in only one position. If you invert the cables you feel the difference. The blades of the radiator fans look like a semi-curve. Contrary to the a/c fans for condenser, the blades look straight. With the a/c fans you can be inverted the cables with out loosing air volume. They cost me $40 each. So I preffer the a/c fans. Also buy a relay to wiring the fans and connect the relay ignition terminal to the compessor clutch positive cable. The only one that they have. With this wiring everytime that you turn on the a/c system and start the compressor, the fan will activated. If you want to turn off the fans, turn to the right the thermostat swith until you desactivated the compressor, but the blower will still blowing air. If you want to activated the fans without turn off the a/c system, you will need a switch, wiring cable and a diode from Radio Shack. I a little tricky to do that, but with patience you can do this wiring. Also you will need to make custom brackets from a sheet of metal or aluminum. You will need some hardware to joint the fans each other (2 bolts, washer and nuts) and for joint the brackets to the fans two bolts, washers and nuts to each side of the fan. Use stainless steel bolts, washers and self locking or nylon lock nuts.

[Nitrometano]

May be this drawings can help