964 bad press

macejad · 05-19-2002, 09:12 PM

I've read a lot of "bad press" about the 964 but I have to tell you I just spent ~2 hours in my garage Sunday night (and it wasn't the first time) looking at my C4 - just walking around it, studying its lines (0.32 drag) and my reflection (Zaino-ed it!) {the rear end of the 964 is a masterpiece - I studied several subtle angles of mine} - and on top of that I've DRIVEN IT 4000 miles this year - "Ooh LA LA LA".

Kevin Stewart · 05-19-2002, 10:43 PM

Welcome to the club if my car is out side, and i go to get a part i just stare at it all the way down the street to my house then i have to do the walk around, i usualy say somthing like holy sh** what a cool car, and ask my daughter whos car it is with an answer, Dad get a life, but hey, 911's are devasting cars to look at, Kevin

Glasgow 911SC · Glasgow 911SC's Garage

I've been looking at 964 C2 & C4's as they are priced along side late model Carreras. I would like one but the only problem is the servicing costs. I've told by my dealer that its the most expensive to service apart from the Turbos! Thats what makes the Carrera ahead in my book as I dont have money to burn.

Planter91C2 · 05-20-2002, 07:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Glasgow 911SC
I've been looking at 964 C2 & C4's as they are priced along side late model Carreras. I would like one but the only problem is the servicing costs. I've told by my dealer that its the most expensive to service apart from the Turbos! Thats what makes the Carrera ahead in my book as I dont have money to burn.

Glasgow, this is entirely incorrect. Your dealer is wrong. i cna't even figure how 964's would be the "most expensive to service"

JeremyD · JeremyD's Garage

Funny - My mechanic says not much difference. He's an independent. Says the AC works better than the earlier, the brakes are better, the motor is just as durable if updates are done. Some electrical is a little more complex - but it's a little more complex car too - faster too...
You have the valve guides on the 87-89's the 915 on the earlier as well as the chain tenshioners. I guess it's always something. You can't really do the major stuff on the 964's without the Bosch "hammer" but that is what my checkbook is for.

Thanks - but I will take the torque of the 3.6 thankfully.

I have also been told that the dealerships are nothing but the training ground for new techs - that the independents are where all the good ones go to where they can get a piece of the action...

Now the Alfa that I had was expensive! Ouch! and $3,000 in the car and I still had a $5,000 car!

Glasgow 911SC · Glasgow 911SC's Garage

I've heard it from an independant guy too. He says his guys wages can be covered by regular 964 visits due to the time it takes to adjust the valves or something. I'll ask him again soon what makes the difference 'cause I really do like the cars!

old_skul · 05-21-2002, 05:42 PM

For me, it's the looks. I know there's few differences in bodystyle, but to me it comes across as (no offense, dude) the "Lady 911".

91C2wrencher · 91C2wrencher's Garage

Gawd, my 1991 C2 is now 11 some years old, of course it needs occassional visits to my local wrench, But just imagine what it would cost to keep just about any other 11 yr/old sports car running and looking great. My car gets comments all the time and I wouldn't trade it in for any other (well maybe there's a couple of others GT2 or a RUF something or another, perhaps a '97 993TT) well you get the idea.. the 964 is truely the last of the breed and it carries that honor well.

JeremyD · JeremyD's Garage

I guess it comes down to personal preference. To me it was one of the first 911's to look like it was designed from the beginning with bumpers in mind. The 2.7 to 3.2's all looked like they were stuck on and an afterthought with rubber booties too.

The 3.6 obviously has it's fans - look how many want to do a swap. Of course, early 90's it really had the performance to back it up 0-60 in 5.3, 165 mph with a base C2. Even if it was heavier than the previous models - it still kicked buty.

My car is 12 years old and I still get people who ask me how many hours old it is... How many 12 year old cars get that question?

Victor · 05-21-2002, 06:24 PM

Jeremy964, my 13 YO 3.2 gets the same question time and time again. Rubber booties 'n all.

The general public think all shiny Porsches are new.

Cheers, VC '89 3.2

Mike Feinstein · Mike Feinstein's Garage

I've owned my 964 for two years and have put about 10,000 miles on the clock in that time. Except for a valve adjustment ($500), I have not put one nickel into my car that I didn't want to. Oil changes, brakes, filters, and other maintenance items are all do-it-yourself projects on this car. Heck, if I had the time (and a lift), with the help of this board, valve adjustments would be DIY also.

It's easy and inexpensive to have your wrench run fault codes with a hammer (or the like). This is how I discovered a bad oil temp sensor ($20 DIY repair). I don't drive my car gently and it has been reliable as a brick.

Glasgow, your dealership is flat wrong IMHO. Speed, handling, classic styling, refinement, and reliability all make it a great choice. Suggest you find a mechanic that knows what he is talking about rather than relying on Bruce Anderson's bias to advise his customers. Heck, even Bruce has been backpeddling on this one lately.

Glasgow 911SC · Glasgow 911SC's Garage

Just looked in 911 & Porsche World and picked a well known British specialists (Camtune). The prices reflect what I've been told.
In terms of DIY servicing, in the UK (dont know about the US & elsewhere), a service history is very important in terms of selling your car and more importantly, the value of the car. A FSH helps back up owners claims of the car been treated right.

JeremyD · JeremyD's Garage

Now that is it!

I've decided not to take my car to Scotland! (just kidding)

... and I'll just have to settle on the fact that I have the bastard stepchild of the Porsche.

Oh well, my kids won't be able to go to college, but at least I drive the car I want.

Planter91C2 · 05-22-2002, 05:37 AM

glasgow, i am dumfounded... i cannot understand how a 964 oil change would cost so much. definitely it should not be more than a 993. it is the same process as a carrera.

what am i missing?

Glasgow 911SC · Glasgow 911SC's Garage

993 has hydraulic tappets making it cheaper.

Planter91C2 · 05-22-2002, 10:28 AM

oh, those are prices for a valve adjustment... (it wasn't labeled)

Mike Feinstein · Mike Feinstein's Garage

Glasgow,

According to your chart, the cost difference for a valve adjustment on a 964 3.6 vs a 3.2 is 128$ every 15,000 miles. If you find that more significant than the added horsepower, coil-over suspension, 12 plug, dual distributor ignition, functional AC, etc., than it sounds like the 3.2 is the right choice for you.

I suspect that for many of us, the 128$ is well worth it. No one will tell you that Porsche ownership is cheap. The minimal cost delta for 964 parts seems negligible in the big picture. My suggestion is to buy the car that turns you on the most. If you were shopping for an econobox it would be a different story. But you're not....you're buying a Porsche....an irresponsible and self indulgent sportscar

.

Drive a stock 3.2 Carerra. Drive it hard. Then drive a stock 3.6 964. Drive it hard. If the choice, based on performance, is not obvious to you, certainly, buy the one that costs less to own.

nostatic · nostatic's Garage

I think the "buy the one that sends you" advice is on target. I have driven 3.2 and 3.6 cars, and found the 964 to have quite a bit more juice. The AC is better, it is more "refined", and requires less effort to drive. The few that I drove however did not have the same visceral experience of the earlier cars, and did not have as much road feel up front (I haven't driven too many 964s, so maybe it varies). My local wrench has nothing good to say about 964s, and strongly advised against buying one. Other mechanics have not been so dogmatic.

If the car is well sorted, I think you'll grin no matter which 911 you buy. Depends which one gives you the biggest smile. I'm still working on the answer to that question...

Glasgow 911SC · Glasgow 911SC's Garage

The amounts are in pounds and minus VAT @ 17.5%. I do about 12000 miles/ year so thats $863 a year servicing. It's getting ridiculous at that level. My SC, & Carreras are bad enough at approx $648 / year, and thats without paying an extra £300 ($420) per year insurance costs to upgrade to a 964, which I already fork out £1200 for. I would be willing to pay the extra insurance as, like I said before, I really do like 964's. But taking everything into account, the costs are just too much for what, on paper, is a small gain in performance. Moving to a Carrera with 231hp Stock wouldn't cost me anything extra apart from the car.